destey Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Have a 1998 Forester, trying to get the drivers side ball joint out. Its frozen in from the top and bottom. Had to drill the pinch bolt, as the head snapped off. Using a pickel fork and a sledge hammer, giving it everything I had, couldn't get it loose. I did however sloppen up the ball joint to the point where it handles horrible (worse than before). I had a problem with a similar car, 95 legacy, had to drill that pinch bolt too, and drive a chisel into the crack, but that did not work on this one. I did a search, found people have trouble with this. People suggested heat and the snap-on puller. Snap on puller might work but its frozen in from both sides (top and bottom, can't get the control arm free on the bottom either). Regarding heat, I have an oxy-acetylene torch but the amount of heat it would take to free the ball joint, would probably ruin the wheel bearing. I've tried pb blaster (hosed it down 3 times in the week leading up to the job). I tried this bottle of stuff that's supposed to be -45 and freeze its way into cracks and free it up like the pb blaster, that didn't work either. I'm trying to get the control arm out as that has rusted out and looks dangers to drive. I have a feeling like this ball joint is rusted solid with the spindle. Anyone have any suggestions? I thought of getting a new spindle at a junk yard, but with Vermont winters, I don't think the ones in junkyard will be very easy to get out. Any ideas on how to get that ball joint out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'm not quite clear on what you have apart. Do you have the ball joint castle nut removed from the control arm and you are just trying to get the ball joint out of the knuckle/spindle? If yes, then your best bet is something similar to the Snap On puller. You can build one yourself or there used to be someone that sold one on fleabay for about $45 (although a few quick searches are not pulling it up for me). Links to some DIY that show what other people did to make a remover: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/suspension-handling/134369210-diy-subaru-ball-joint-removal-tool-around-18-1-lug-nut.html http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/99-do-yourself-illustrated-guides/46826-homemade-ball-joint-puller.html I made one similar to the clubwrx version (which required me to get a lug nut welded to the threaded rod). Works like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If you have access to shop air try a pickle fork on an air chisel, like an impact gun it slams faster and harder than you can with a hand sledge. If not then heating the stud where it goes thru the lower control arm will give you a good fire with lots of black smoke and destroy your boot but , should allow you to pop free from the control arm with your pickle fork and hammer. After you get it free of the control arm , use a small chisel to spread spindle ,being sure that the chisel itself doesn't tilt in and hold the ball joint in place. Once you have that spread then grabbing the stud with vice grips and slamming with a hammer... or using small chisels at the small lip where the Bj seats on the spindle start smacking ... or welding a nut on a slide hammer can sometimes pop them free...if you heat this area you could damage your wheel bearing... but if all else fails and your bloody and pissed off and you're this far in ...just do it and if your wheel bearing starts howling later then change them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Right now the only thing off is the pinch bolt (drilled out), and the bottom castle nut. I don't care if the bottom comes out, as I have a new control arm to go in. I just need the ball joint out of the socket. But its stuck from both ends. I don't see that snap on puller, or DIY pullers working, as I think the threaded shaft will separate from the base before it pulls from the spindle. I litterally hit the pickel fork with everything I had with a 20lb sledgehammer and it didn't come apart, but it did sloppen the ball joint where its pretty loose now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Tried the chisel in the crack, didn't work. If you have access to shop air try a pickle fork on an air chisel, like an impact gun it slams faster and harder than you can with a hand sledge. If not then heating the stud where it goes thru the lower control arm will give you a good fire with lots of black smoke and destroy your boot but , should allow you to pop free from the control arm with your pickle fork and hammer. After you get it free of the control arm , use a small chisel to spread spindle ,being sure that the chisel itself doesn't tilt in and hold the ball joint in place. Once you have that spread then grabbing the stud with vice grips and slamming with a hammer... or using small chisels at the small lip where the Bj seats on the spindle start smacking ... or welding a nut on a slide hammer can sometimes pop them free...if you heat this area you could damage your wheel bearing... but if all else fails and your bloody and pissed off and you're this far in ...just do it and if your wheel bearing starts howling later then change them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Been my experience that the chisel must be a small one and come straight up from the bottom... with the control arm still in place you can't do that. I never had luck trying to spread that spindle by coming straight in .. for me that just will not work. sounds like everything is rusted up tight. Look for a donor car and take everything from the strut thru the lower control arm and just replace it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If the stud is going to come out, then it sounds like is is cemented in and a studless removal is not something that sounds fun. I'm thinking a replacement spindle is in your future, but as you already figured, donors will be hard to come by in VT. Knowing that, I'd torch it as montana tom suggested. If you trash the bearing it doesn't sound like your on a very different path than you're looking at now (the used spindle). I'd see if anyone on here has one they can sell you if there isn't anything in the yards near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Been my experience that the chisel must be a small one and come straight up from the bottom... with the control arm still in place you can't do that. I never had luck trying to spread that spindle by coming straight in .. for me that just will not work. sounds like everything is rusted up tight. Look for a donor car and take everything from the strut thru the lower control arm and just replace it all. Good idea, I was coming in from the side. I can see how coming in from the bottom would help more, closer to the beginning of the crack where it'll spread it more. Maybe I can heat the bottom stud and get it free of the control arm, then hit a chisel from the bottom as you suggest. If the stud is going to come out, then it sounds like is is cemented in and a studless removal is not something that sounds fun. I'm thinking a replacement spindle is in your future, but as you already figured, donors will be hard to come by in VT. Knowing that, I'd torch it as montana tom suggested. If you trash the bearing it doesn't sound like your on a very different path than you're looking at now (the used spindle). I'd see if anyone on here has one they can sell you if there isn't anything in the yards near you. Kind of thinking this as well. Doesn't seem like there's much better options. I'll try as Tom suggested first though. But even a spindle replacement doesn't look easy. The tie rod looks rusted out- at the threaded part and where it connects to the spindle. Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate the help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Maybe some decent replacement parts available from wrecking yards at car-part.com It is worth a look see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Have you tried spraying it with anything such as PB Blaster and letting it sit overnight? If you do this spray it every couple hours for a 12 to 24 hour period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Looking at it a week ago I knew it would be a nightmare and I hose it down with pbblaster then, then 2 times later on in the week. Also tried this other stuff that goes down to -45, makes its own cracks and gets in itself in there. "Loctite 996456 Fast Acting Corrosion Freeze and Release" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Looking at it a week ago I knew it would be a nightmare and I hose it down with pbblaster then, then 2 times later on in the week. Also tried this other stuff that goes down to -45, makes its own cracks and gets in itself in there. "Loctite 996456 Fast Acting Corrosion Freeze and Release" Ok, have you tried it now that you have it partially broke loose? Everytime you loosen it up (such as you have done) your opening up more space for those products to get in there. Plus you don't just spray once, do it every couple of hours for a 12 to 24 hour period. If that doesn't work, go pick up a little hand held propane torch (the one that takes the same bottles as a camp stove) and hit that thing with some good heat then try the pickle fork. I've been there on an Acura Legend fighting it and when it does pop out it's pretty satisfying, until you realize you still have to put the new one in. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) If you've got a really bad one, and it sounds like you do - none of the tricks or tools are going to work..well not in the intended way (see below). in the rust belt 1 out of every couple dozen are atrocious - they are rusted together and will not separate with any conventional tool/process. Since it's only 1 out of a every couple dozen - a lot of people even in the rust belt that work on their own 1 to 10 Subarus never see it so that's why you see lots of recommendations that you know aren't going to work - they probably aren't if you've got a beast on your hands. you have two options on these really bad 1-in-a-couple-dozen beasts: 1. Manually remove the ball joint: A. break the ball joint into pieces - you'll get the stud and ball to come out of the ball joint socket. *** If you continue to spend hours trying everyones suggested tricks and tools - step A will begin to happen anyway - you'll pull the ball right out of the ball joint itself and it'll just start to disintegrate piecemeal. you might as well save yourself a few hours, trips, tools, purchases, and go for it if you think it's one of these beasts you're dealing with. Go directly at it with chisel, dremels, drills, whatever you got that can break it to bits and get the stud and ball out of there - leaving the socket portion of the ball joint only still in the knuckle. B. with the stud and ball gone - the socket portion of the ball joint will be rust welded into the knuckle socket. they'll literally be hard to tell where one begins and one ends, they're just rusted all together. C. start drilling it out into pieces and it'll eventually flake off with small chisels/stout screwdrivers and then you can start peeling it back with said screw drivers/chisels. D. now jump up and down and repeat after me "WHAT'S MY NAME, COME ON BEAST, YOU GOT NOTHING ON ME YOU FREAKING !)*$%()*$!!!!!!!!" while dancing around a fire that you throw the remnants of the ball joint into. 2. Buy a used knuckle - this saves considerable time and a grueling process. www.car-part.com - everywhere ships now so buy one from the west and south where everything comes apart easy and all these tricks you read about online work every time. ebay routinely has them as well Edited May 11, 2015 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Hammer down on the control arm. A pickle fork will never get the joint separated from the knuckle because it applies pressure on the ball joint housing. Hit the base of the knuckle around the joint hard with a mini sledge on both sides to help knock the rust loose, then hammer straight down on the control arm. Make sure the castle nut is on the bottom stud because you want the joint housing to come out of the knuckle, not the stud to pop loose from the arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure of anywhere to hit on the control arm, and generate sufficient force. I think I was getting quite a bit of up pressure with the pickel fork, it was jammed under the ball joint pinch area. I had the car up on the lift and was able to get a huge swing with the sledge on the pickel fork. Enough so now the car drives terrible today, I must have sloppened up the ball joint. I'm remembering to about 10 years ago when I last did this procedure on a '95 Legacy. After I drilled out the pinch bolt, I think I cut the slot deeper with a cuttoff wheel, and chiseled it open, actually cracking the spindle slightly. But the crack didn't go very far and monitoring it it never went further. But thinking back, was this a good idea? I did the trick but it seems kind of scary now Edited May 11, 2015 by destey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 There's room to hit down on the control arm right around the end. Pop the tie rod end out so you can flip it either way easily and alternate hammering one side then the other. You don't want to ride around on cracked cast iron. The crack can spread at any time and the thing can fall apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 maybe try this trick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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