shongo Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 weigh in on this? putting a low miles ej 2.2 into the 88' loyale. loyal did have an ea-81T naturally aspirated. (it was fun but not reliable and way too much fabrication for the advantages) that being said i am not sure which flywheel to use- am getting differing opinions about the ease of installing the 'larger surface area' flywheel from the legacy. my mechanic doesnt think that we can use the ea flywheel with the ej crankshaft. and some say the opposite. arghhh :/ thanks and see ya in the hills!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Legacy everything gearbox motor and flywheel would be the easiest especially as in a lighter weight vehicle a 2.2 is a torque monster with only Front wheel drive and part time Four Wheel Drive making it all but useless in a place like Washington state where it actually rains. All wheel drive is the go and a Forester gearbox (Do they sell them in the States) comes stock with a 1.4 low range otherwise find an AWD RX Turbo gearbox and do the conversion into a EA 82 Wagon Low Range AWD Box based on the legacy case with the better low range from the wagon and the locking centre diff out of the RX AWD Turbo box. A number of people have built them there is a writeup on Ausubaru and somewhere here as well I seem to remember, Bit of mucking about but not that difficult,The other option is to get somebody to dig up the Northern Islands Japan home market spec AWD low range box with the locking centre diff in the EJ casings. They did make a locking centre diff dual range legacy type Gearbox for the home market with everything you want but very few seem to be aware of it, Maybe Ivans Imports can dig one up for you over there 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Flywheel must match the transmission. So if you use an EA transmission, you must redrill the EA flywheel to match the EJ crank. The clutch disk is the same part# EA or EJ, so you don't gain any surface area. What you can gain is better pressure plates if you go EJ transmission, but if you machine your EA flywheel to ER27 specs (XT6) and use an XT6 clutch kit it works out alright. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yep to the last one, and no, we didn't get DR EJ tranny's here. When one pops up, it's gone and they are highly coveted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shongo Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 ya'all the best1 thanks for chiming in and sharing your experience/opinions At this point i am thinking that the advantages of having dual range off pavement along with better gas mileage on pavement will out weigh the bit of slippage i am expecting on wet hilly roads here in sea town. As far as the flywheel goes i am still not sure what to do... i am working with what i have which is the donor legacy (2.2) and a solid dual range ea tranny with a turbo flywheel that is in the 88 loyale that is being built. I've had (and loved!) a number of different soobies in my time but never gotten this deep before. Trying to keep it simple while taking advantage of having two flywheels to choose from is the goal. can hardly wait tho, have been dreaming of a 2.2 loyale for a looong time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If you have a turbo flywheel and will be using a EA transaxle you will need a adapter plate and have your flywheel redrilled, I can provide both at www.sjrlift.com Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Slippage on wet hilly roads, Maybe you people get better tyres in the States, But here in Australia in smaller sizes such as thirteen and fourteen inch tyres I get wheelspin off the line at 1200 RPM with an EA81 without trying in the wet, Seems there are nothing but rubbish tyres available in those sizes these days in Australia and that is with Korean 185/65/14 Kuhmo tyres not Chinese rubbish like Nankangs, Even Michelins here come from Indonesia and are rubbish compared to original French made ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Flywheel must match the transmission. So if you use an EA transmission, you must redrill the EA flywheel to match the EJ crank. The clutch disk is the same part# EA or EJ, so you don't gain any surface area. What you can gain is better pressure plates if you go EJ transmission, but if you machine your EA flywheel to ER27 specs (XT6) and use an XT6 clutch kit it works out alright. It is not the Flywheel that must match the transmission but the clutch plate and throwout bearing to match the carrier, The flywheel has to match the engine, Yes I know everyone drills them in the States but having seen what happens when a flywheel comes loose I personally would not risk such a mod when it is a simple matter such as with EA81 flywheels to machine them instead of drilling an EA82 as so many do and no doubt there is a better method than drilling a flywheel to make something fit where the factory did not when it comes to EA Engines also. The damage concerning a flywheel coming loose was from a Nissan FJ20 fitted to an early Toyota Corolla and it was a stock flywheel behind a 500 plus horsepower drag engine, The owner actually had a proper high tensile steel flywheel ready to go but decided he would change it next week, He went to the Friday night session at the drags and the cast factory flywheel came loose and broke up and almost chopped his feet off as it destroyed the gearbox, the Firewall and even chopped the water outlet off the back of the cylinder head, So I am not a fan of drilling flywheels beyond what the factory designed them as. Face it that amount of mass spinning at say 6000 rpm is not something you want coming adrift especially as it is when all said and done a very heavy circular saw with teeth on the outer circumfrence to bite you with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Subaru flywheel is ahead of the front axle centerline and the blast radius would go transverse to the car, so even in the highly unlikely event it grenades, it's not going to touch the occupants of the car. The bolts don't locate the flywheel, it centers on the step in the crank. That step is same EA to EJ, so the flywheel will still be perfectly centered. The bolt hole modification is happening near the center of the flywheel, which is the lowest stressed area of the piece. The closer to the rim you are, the higher the stress on the spinning flywheel. All the bolts do is clamp the flywheel to the crank flange. It's the static friction between the rear face of the flywheel and the crank flange that transmit the power of the engine, not the shear strength of the bolts. So the bolt holes don't have to be perfect. The re-drilling is taking the asymmetric pattern of the EA (which ensured the timing degree marks would line up) to the symmetrical pattern of the EJ, which had no timing marks on the flywheel. You aren't drilling new holes next to the existing holes, you are offsetting the existing holes just enough to fix the pattern. So the amount of material removed is not huge. Have you ever put an EJ flywheel next to an EA one? Or tried to stick an EJ flywheel into an EA bellhousing? It's pretty plain why the flywheel has to match the transmission. We use the EA transmissions in the US because they are our only option for low range 4x4. But if going to AWD means loosing low range, the trade off isn't worth it for an offroad capable car. For a street car, then yes it makes sense to swap in an entire EJ powertrain. Yeah, the traction isn't great in FWD with a more powerful engine. I could spin 235/75r15's easily in the rain. But if I didn't drive like a jerk it was fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 It is not the Flywheel that must match the transmission but the clutch plate and throwout bearing to match the carrier, The flywheel has to match the engine, Yes I know everyone drills them in the States but having seen what happens when a flywheel comes loose I personally would not risk such a mod when it is a simple matter such as with EA81 flywheels to machine them instead of drilling an EA82 as so many do and no doubt there is a better method than drilling a flywheel to make something fit where the factory did not when it comes to EA Engines also. The damage concerning a flywheel coming loose was from a Nissan FJ20 fitted to an early Toyota Corolla and it was a stock flywheel behind a 500 plus horsepower drag engine, The owner actually had a proper high tensile steel flywheel ready to go but decided he would change it next week, He went to the Friday night session at the drags and the cast factory flywheel came loose and broke up and almost chopped his feet off as it destroyed the gearbox, the Firewall and even chopped the water outlet off the back of the cylinder head, So I am not a fan of drilling flywheels beyond what the factory designed them as. Face it that amount of mass spinning at say 6000 rpm is not something you want coming adrift especially as it is when all said and done a very heavy circular saw with teeth on the outer circumfrence to bite you with. You MUST use EA81 or EA82 flywheel to use an EA transmission. PERIOD. EJ flywheel WILL NOT WORK. Also, we are talking about ovalling out the factory holes, not a very big modification. Done thousands of times around the world for 20+ years. Also, these motors have 130 hp, not 600. Your fears are baseless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 So are you guys trying to tell me even Foresters in the US do not get a Low range Tranny, Out here the Forester gets the best of the easily available Low Range ratio EJ gearboxes with a 1.4 Low range similar to the older four speed low range. As I said before Do you people not get Jap Import second hand gearboxes they would have Dual range and sometimes centre diff locking EJ gearboxes. As for redrilling any flywheel, It isn't that expensive in these days of everyone owns a CNC to get a new Steel flywheel made for anything I have seen redrilled flywheels and the fact Racers often add dowel pins as well says something. Yes I am totally aware that the clamping force does the driving just as when you think about it the Braking force with disks is just clamping force that stops a whole vehicle, You must use an EA sized flywheel does not mean it must be an EA Flywheel as pointed out above. When all said and done though a 2.2 EJ has what could almost be termed excessive torque for the application, Sometimes a smaller version makes for a better conversion such as the old Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV was a much sweeter Car to drive than the 2000GTV version, In a Loyal sized vehicle I believe for general use an EJ 20 or possible even an EJ 18 would make for a nicer vehicle to drive, EJ 2200 is used more because they are cheap and common not necessarily better. As for my fears being baseless Yes it may not be an Issue but try and find any professional who will put their hand up and admit to doing such a modification and thus placing themselves into a position of liability that would see them screwed in a Court case end of story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 No, no subaru since 1989 sold in North America has had a dual range transmission. No, we don't get EJ jap import boxes. Most of the importers are dealing in turbo engines. The very few EJ dual range boxes that have made it here are usually in the northwest or California. There's a couple people on here who sell the flywheel redrilling service. They know they're at minimal risk of ending up in court because there's minimal risk of anything going wrong with the modified flywheels. If you have seen an EA flywheel, you would understand why it would not be cheap to machine a steel copy. There is a deep step in the flywheel, so you would either have do machine out a ton of material or make a bolt on spacer ring for a flat flywheel. I've had stock EA82 flywheels up over 8,000rpm before. The EJ's are computer rev-limited to 6750rpm. There's a margin of safety there. If you feel that more power would be detrimental to the driving characteristics of an EA car... well leave it stock then. In my opinion, excess power is just fine. The EJ's are not some high strung peaky engine, they run just fine at partial throttle, so the car is just as controllable as it was before. Except now, you have the option of breaking the tires loose or accelerating quickly when you want to. The EJ22 sometimes wasn't enough power for me, I could still bog it down to a stall when doing a long steep hillclimb. An EJ25 would have been better. Or an EZ30. Thank goodness we don't have engineering prudes controlling things in the USA to the extent you do in AUS. Very few people get hurt by car modifications here, and we have a ton more variety and fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shongo Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Gloyale, You MUST use EA81 or EA82 flywheel to use an EA transmission. PERIOD. EJ flywheel WILL NOT WORK. Also, we are talking about ovalling out the factory holes, not a very big modification. Done thousands of times around the world for 20+ years. Also, these motors have 130 hp, not 600. Your fears are baseless. the mechanic doing this swap seems to think that the EJ flywheel is the best option. he says it will need to be beveled a little to fit. ... this is the fun part of swaps right?...figuring it out... wondering why the EJ flywheel will not work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Wonder Wedge Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 IIRC, the EJ flywheel won't clear the EA bellhousing, nor will the starter engage correctly. (Need be, I have a turbo EA82 flywheel, fresh cut, if you need one) The modification to oval the holes is a proven and well-covered modification. Yeah, most machine shops won't touch them in the states, but it's even a DIY job if you have a decent drill press. Or ship it to someone who's willing. Swapping an entire EJ drivetrain is not plug and play, so if you want both the EJ22 power and minimal headaches, just redrill the flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The EJ flywheel, like stated before, will not work with an EA box, period. Your best option if this is a street car, is to use an XT6 flywheel as it's the lightest of the EA series flywheels and uses the largest clutch disc. For off-roading, you'll want something with a bit more weight to help with low speed, low RPM torque. I'm in the process of making an adapter plate to bolt onto an EA/ER engine so I can run the EJ box, EJ flywheel and clutch. Currently have a '97 LGT 4.11 5-speed and an OS Giken twin disc clutch to run behind the built ER27 I'm in the middle of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shongo Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 IIRC, the EJ flywheel won't clear the EA bellhousing, nor will the starter engage correctly. (Need be, I have a turbo EA82 flywheel, fresh cut, if you need one) The modification to oval the holes is a proven and well-covered modification. Yeah, most machine shops won't touch them in the states, but it's even a DIY job if you have a decent drill press. Or ship it to someone who's willing. Swapping an entire EJ drivetrain is not plug and play, so if you want both the EJ22 power and minimal headaches, just redrill the flywheel. The mechanic and machinist that i am working with on this swap both want to use the ej flywheel- yes with an ea trans. The ring gear will be replaced on the starter to fit the ej flywheel. The fly wheel itself will need to be beveled to fit also if i am gathering correctly. I am nervous norvus about all this as it seems literally no one on here has done this, this way, ...or is it that someone did and it didnt work out? heh, lol, wouldnt i like to know! Either way for ya'alls embibement and edification stay tuned to see how it goes... looks like this is what is happening as he cant cash me out and i am not qualified to do this work nor do i have the time to become so. happily too busy with other aspects of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shongo Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 The EJ flywheel, like stated before, will not work with an EA box, period. Your best option if this is a street car, is to use an XT6 flywheel as it's the lightest of the EA series flywheels and uses the largest clutch disc. For off-roading, you'll want something with a bit more weight to help with low speed, low RPM torque. I'm in the process of making an adapter plate to bolt onto an EA/ER engine so I can run the EJ box, EJ flywheel and clutch. Currently have a '97 LGT 4.11 5-speed and an OS Giken twin disc clutch to run behind the built ER27 I'm in the middle of. wow, just wow. what a carnival this build has been- now the deal with the flywheel is that a machinist in ballard wants to thread the holes on the ea flywheel and put stainless plugs in there with lock tight and then re-drill as opposed to elongating the holes. what a long story this has become! thanks to all who have shared their experience on the matter! The EJ flywheel, like stated before, will not work with an EA box, period. Your best option if this is a street car, is to use an XT6 flywheel as it's the lightest of the EA series flywheels and uses the largest clutch disc. For off-roading, you'll want something with a bit more weight to help with low speed, low RPM torque. I'm in the process of making an adapter plate to bolt onto an EA/ER engine so I can run the EJ box, EJ flywheel and clutch. Currently have a '97 LGT 4.11 5-speed and an OS Giken twin disc clutch to run behind the built ER27 I'm in the middle of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shongo Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 You MUST use EA81 or EA82 flywheel to use an EA transmission. PERIOD. EJ flywheel WILL NOT WORK. Also, we are talking about ovalling out the factory holes, not a very big modification. Done thousands of times around the world for 20+ years. Also, these motors have 130 hp, not 600. Your fears are baseless. as it turns out we are using the ea flywheel! im sure most on here figured it would come to that eventually. but of course there is one thing that is happening still that i havent heard of and that is.... machinist wants to thread the current holes and put in steel plugs with lovk tight and then redrill as opposed to elongating the existing holes. oi whatcha think? spendy for no reason? does sound pretty ding dang solid to me though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I redrill flywheels every month , no one has reported back to me any issues, and ive used them in all my offroad cars with no issues, heres a image from my store http://www.sjrlift.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/fywheel%20sjr.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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