S_Allen Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 After looking around and found good things about Colorado Component Rebuilders, I bought a rebuilt for my 2002 Outback wagon. From day one the new engine was a lot louder and ran really rough. Then it started throwing misfire errors. I used every trick I could find on the internet to fix the misfire issue and replaced a lot of good sensors. Anyway I finally took it to East Side Subaru in Kirkland WA and they said it was a sticky valve and the engine was also out of balance. After a month of phone calls and emails to CCR with no response, I finally reported them to BBB and Yelp. Funny thing, the next day I get a response from CCR. The response was of little value since it just said the Subaru certified mechanic is wrong and that even though they can't test an engine at the shop, I should continue searching the internet for another solution. Have any of you had success with CCR lately? I went back to my original search and realized all the responses were from several years ago. Perhaps they take care of their local customers, or were a good shop many years ago, but I'm not finding them to be worth using. Especially with the $4000 price tag. Heck, I still haven't got my $250 back for the core charge and that was over 7 months ago... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Never mind Edited May 22, 2015 by desertsubaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) They're pretty active on here ccrinc Note: I am not intending to take sides Edited May 22, 2015 by comatosellama 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Shall I post my email response here as well? Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'd like to know how the shop diagnosed a "sticky valve". The valve clearance on that engine has to be adjusted after the engine has been driven for a few hundred miles. That's a pretty normal operation after a rebuild. Incorrect valve clearance will cause rough running, and can cause excess noise if the clearance is loose. What kind of noise are you getting that makes this engine "loud"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinsdad Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 K.. I can only comment on my experience,, I bought and installed a motor from CCR into my 84 BRAT... 1.8L EA81 with cam and piston upgrades.. when I got it everything was complete and nice.. called them on phone to make sure I was following every instruction correctly.. they answered all my questions completely and clearly.. I have had it for several months and have had no issues with it.. granted it only has maybe 1000 miles if that on it, but that has been my experience up to now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobaru71 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Bought my engine from CCR late last year, very quiet and smooth running. Very good quality IMHO. About 6k on it so far and runs like new. Get about 27-28mpg. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoebee2 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Sticky valves happen just not very often. Out of balance? Care to expand on that? What's out of balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 This isn't my thread. Mr. Allen started it because he is on a self-stated mission to tell every Subaru forum that we don't stand behind our work as per his emails which is why I offered to reply. He may never check back here again. Briefly: Has P0303 and P0304 misfires (opposite sides: I believe this is what is causing the "imbalance") Runs "ok" cold and with full gas tank. The misfire doesn't start until the engine is hot, and gets worse with lower fuel. Dealer checked cyls. 1 and 3, not 3 and 4. 160lbs compression on both. Dealer says "may be a valve sticks open when hot". It would far more likely to stick when cold than hot. Sorry, I don't have much faith in the diagnostic abilities of most dealer techs. That's not how they're trained. He has replaced all kinds of stuff, some of it (like the coil) with aftermarket. It is worthy noting that the dealer replicated the problem using an OE test coil, AFTER the engine warmed up. BUT, he never contacted us about any kind of problem for 6 months even though he said the problems started after 100 miles. When he did finally contact us, it was to demand a new engine. And no, I don't see any way we could test the problem after shipping the engine back to us (1,000 miles away). It would need to be in the vehicle for us to diagnose it. This is a complex issue. I suggested 2 good shops to take it to who are extremely capable of diagnosing complicated issues. (The internet reference was to a similar anomalous situation involving other, older vehicles, not his specifically.) What we do is purely mechanical. Something outside of the engine is causing the problem. This is our sincere belief. As I told him, an engine can be on the verge of throwing a rod, or the timing belt tensioner will break with no CEL beforehand because those are mechanical issues, not electrical. So, there are a lot of good minds on here. FairTax, Gary, anybody with real experience care to comment? Not to be too rude, but no half-assed guessing if you don't have experience. So far, there's been too much of that already. Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Allen Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hi all, comatosellama, I'm not asking anyone to take sides. I was just trying to get a baseline as to how reputable CCR is in 2015, since all the references I had were from several years ago. As mentioned, several calls were made to CCR (BTW, Sarah and Cindy were very nice but sounded put on the spot, I assume due to lack of any progress). Each time they said they had no response from Emily and then finally Sarah said I should email Emily at the generic info address. It wasn't until I posted a complaint to the BBB of Colorado and Yelp a week later (5 weeks after I started calling) that I finally got my first response from CCR. My mission, as Emily puts it, is to resolve this issue and figure out the integrity of the company I entrusted over $4000 to provide a rebuilt engine that would last as long as the original engine and not one that would limp along for maybe the length of the warranty. From the responses, I get the impression the only way they will honor the warranty is if the engine throws a rod or something. The fact that I didn't contact CCR for 6 month is irrelevant to there being a problem as it is still well within warranty. The truth is that I also thought the issue was a sensor and I spent that time replacing parts based on suggestions I found on the internet. I finally gave up and took it to the shop for diagnosis. BTW, CCR only suggested one mechanic (not two) that I've never heard of and is a 100 miles away and doesn't have the diagnosis equipment required to troubleshoot the misfire. I'm happy to hear the above success stories and wish I had one too, but is there anyone out there that had an engine problem and CCR followed through? Now on to something productive. Shoebee2 and others, the engine was loud and had a vibration from the get-go, not a hundred miles later. It was within the first hundred miles that it started throwing the misfire errors. Although the valves are louder than typical, the loudness is comparable to running at 1500RPM when only at 800. If the problem was just a valve adjustment, I would think that the Subaru dealership would have noted that. Relative to how they came up with the sticky valve, I don't know, but the vibration in the engine is pretty obvious, I just thought it was a result of the engine misfire, not a balance issue because if feels like an engine with old dirty sparkplugs. I assume that the mechanic was reading the engine codes while it was running and determined that all cylinders were firing and it was still vibrating, but this is a guess. Other symptoms include lack of power especially at low RPM ( often stalls if not reving from a start) and after market Crank Position sensor dies after 3-5 uses (have went through 2 and assuming due to not as rugged as OEM and the vibration of the engine is breaking them). The original Crank Position sensor works fine (i.e. the car runs). Having never ran the engine, I don't see how CCR can dismiss a Subaru mechanic and make the statement "What we do is purely mechanical. Something outside of the engine is causing the problem." and this is the problem at hand. As of today, I have still only received the one response with no path to a solution. This combined with the initial lack of response has justifiably made me very suspicious of CCR's integrity. If CCR would suggest a mechanic that wasn't 100 miles away for a second opinion on the misfire & vibration, and would offer to cover 100% of the diagnosis if it confirmed an issue with the rebuilt long block, then I would happily take it there. CCR is affiliated with the Engines Rebuilders Council, and they suggest several local mechanics on their website. Thank you all for your responses and sorry for the length of this response, however, I don't have time to check/respond on a daily basis and I wanted to address each of the above comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hi all, comatosellama, I'm not asking anyone to take sides. I was just trying to get a baseline as to how reputable CCR is in 2015, since all the references I had were from several years ago. As mentioned, several calls were made to CCR (BTW, Sarah and Cindy were very nice but sounded put on the spot, I assume due to lack of any progress). Each time they said they had no response from Emily and then finally Sarah said I should email Emily at the generic info address. It wasn't until I posted a complaint to the BBB of Colorado and Yelp a week later (5 weeks after I started calling) that I finally got my first response from CCR. My mission, as Emily puts it, is to resolve this issue and figure out the integrity of the company I entrusted over $4000 to provide a rebuilt engine that would last as long as the original engine and not one that would limp along for maybe the length of the warranty. From the responses, I get the impression the only way they will honor the warranty is if the engine throws a rod or something. The fact that I didn't contact CCR for 6 month is irrelevant to there being a problem as it is still well within warranty. The truth is that I also thought the issue was a sensor and I spent that time replacing parts based on suggestions I found on the internet. I finally gave up and took it to the shop for diagnosis. BTW, CCR only suggested one mechanic (not two) that I've never heard of and is a 100 miles away and doesn't have the diagnosis equipment required to troubleshoot the misfire. I'm happy to hear the above success stories and wish I had one too, but is there anyone out there that had an engine problem and CCR followed through? Now on to something productive. Shoebee2 and others, the engine was loud and had a vibration from the get-go, not a hundred miles later. It was within the first hundred miles that it started throwing the misfire errors. Although the valves are louder than typical, the loudness is comparable to running at 1500RPM when only at 800. If the problem was just a valve adjustment, I would think that the Subaru dealership would have noted that. Relative to how they came up with the sticky valve, I don't know, but the vibration in the engine is pretty obvious, I just thought it was a result of the engine misfire, not a balance issue because if feels like an engine with old dirty sparkplugs. I assume that the mechanic was reading the engine codes while it was running and determined that all cylinders were firing and it was still vibrating, but this is a guess. Other symptoms include lack of power especially at low RPM ( often stalls if not reving from a start) and after market Crank Position sensor dies after 3-5 uses (have went through 2 and assuming due to not as rugged as OEM and the vibration of the engine is breaking them). The original Crank Position sensor works fine (i.e. the car runs). Having never ran the engine, I don't see how CCR can dismiss a Subaru mechanic and make the statement "What we do is purely mechanical. Something outside of the engine is causing the problem." and this is the problem at hand. As of today, I have still only received the one response with no path to a solution. This combined with the initial lack of response has justifiably made me very suspicious of CCR's integrity. If CCR would suggest a mechanic that wasn't 100 miles away for a second opinion on the misfire & vibration, and would offer to cover 100% of the diagnosis if it confirmed an issue with the rebuilt long block, then I would happily take it there. CCR is affiliated with the Engines Rebuilders Council, and they suggest several local mechanics on their website. Thank you all for your responses and sorry for the length of this response, however, I don't have time to check/respond on a daily basis and I wanted to address each of the above comments. Maybe you didn't tighten motor mounts to spec? Or the ones you have may be shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 If CCR would suggest a mechanic that wasn't 100 miles away for a second opinion There's no reason you need to take the car to a mechanic they've suggested. Pick up the phonebook and look in the auto repair section and find someone closer, preferably someone that has experience with Subaru's, and get a second opinion. Anytime you have a running issue with a newly rebuilt engine, that issue needs to be dealt with ASAP. It was running rough from day one, it should have been taken right back to the shop that installed it same day. Even 100 miles is too far to drive an engine with multiple misfires occurring. If the best that the installing shop can come up with is "sticky valve", I don't think they've even tried to diagnose anything. Swapping parts around isn't a diagnosis. Two things that you need done to determine the interal condition of the engine are 1. compression test 2. leak-down test The compression test will tell you if you have one or more cylinders which are making less power (lower compression) than the others. The leak-down test will tell you where that compression is going. If compression is even, and the leakdown test shows no significant leakage, the problem is going to be ignition or fuel system related. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Skip does not have to take it to either shop which I suggested. I just happen to know and have respect for both of them. There are a lot of Subaru shops around the Seattle area, some with good reviews and some with very bad reviews. We're leaning toward fuel system as well, as in charcoal canister, purge solenoid, etc. Unfortunately, we cannot diagnose this from this distance. IF the issue does turn out to be our fault, we will indeed pay for the diagnostic time. The dollar amount of labor we pay per hour is clearly stated on our warranty paperwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) A few things that catch my eye here: 1.) Misfire Codes - this means multiple misfires yet they say a sticky valve? That makes no sense because a sticky valve usually only be affects 1 cylinder, not multiple cylinders for misfires. 2.) You say the problem was from day one but you drove around a $4,000 engine without getting it diagnosed? 3.) No second opinion - most normal people who spend $4k on an engine then installation price would get a second opinion before blaming the engine. You waited way to long to get it diagnosed, then you don't get a second opinion, and finally you hop on here to bad mouth a company (disregard the fact that they are a member here it could have been any company). Then, to top that off you are immediately blaming the rebuilders and not the dealer. Maybe they misdiagnosed your original engine? Either create a separate post and ask for help diagnosing this or go get a second opinion. Either of these and I might have a little respect for you. Edited May 27, 2015 by lstevens76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Then, to top that off you are immediately blaming the rebuilders and not the dealer. Maybe they misdiagnosed your original engine? That makes me think the dealership wanted to sell a new head, or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 interesting thread - everyone is being civil, I'm not accustomed to that on the internet! just diving in to say, sometimes, a simple vacuum gauge will indicate a sticking valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 interesting thread - everyone is being civil, I'm not accustomed to that on the internet! This is why I stay here, never seen someone go off on someone else, mods and admins are all cool (still waiting on my chat subscription to be filled tho, paid 2 months ago). People actually give a link instead of yelling "SEARCH" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) And, another crazy comes out of the woodwork! A guy we sold an EA81 engine to over 4 years ago - the warranty is 3 years - called the shop last night and said we sold him a bad engine. If we don't refund his money, he's going to ruin us on the internet. We have 24 hours "Tick. Tick. Tick." (Yes, he actually said this in his message.) Today, he called and he was bitching about a transmission he bought at the same time (back in 2011). Oh, he also said for us "to get our computer guy out of his computer and stop spying on him". He's going to file a class action lawsuit, go on every Subaru forum and put us out of business if we don't give him his money back. His mechanic friend (who accepts shipments for him) says he does all his own work, beats the heck out of his cars, offroads and 4 wheels them, etc. I thought you guys might be entertained by this. Edited July 1, 2015 by ccrinc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Doesn't your warranty state that off-road use voids the warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Doesn't your warranty state that off-road use voids the warranty? I would think it would cover any "Abuse" by the owner, but not specifically off-road use. That's two different aspects there. You can go off-road and have fun going up in the mountains and stuff, but then you can go off-road and do things that abuse the vehicle and blow an engine or crack an oil pan as well. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Our warranty states that off-roading is considered abuse and voids the warranty since we (obviously) can't tell who will be responsible about it and who won't. Now, driving up a dirt road is not "off roading", of course. That's still a road. But that's not the main point. This main thing is that, out of the blue, more than FOUR YEARS after his purchase, he called, left really odd messages demanding full refunds and made off-the-wall threats without even talking to anybody. Somebody needs to get him back on his meds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Out of the blue isn't it. Demanding a refund isn't it. Claiming your spying on him through his car's computer................................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Out of the blue isn't it. Demanding a refund isn't it. Claiming your spying on him through his car's computer................................................ I know, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Somebody needs to get him back on his meds! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States Edit: Link shortener ruins the joke Edited July 2, 2015 by comatosellama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States Edit: Link shortener ruins the joke Maybe I'm dense, but I don't quite get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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