$2000+ repair worth it for 1998 Forester? HELP!

[annielumc]

Help! Just took my 1998 Forester in for knock sensor replacement and was told the following should be done:

knock sensor-$370

valve cover gaskets- $470

crank seals-$755

timing belt while they're in there because they have to remove it anyway -$100 just for belt no additional labor

left front axle cover torn and grease is "going everywhere" - $393

 

So, my question is do I dole out $2000 + on this car? My daughter goes to school in Syracuse - 3.5 hour drive and the plan was for her to take it to campus in the fall.

 

I'm freaking out!

Thank you!

[desertsubaru]

How many miles on it? Everything quoted to can be done at home with some tools and a repair manual for way less then $2k Heck for about $1k you could get a low mileage JDM engine.

[annielumc]

It has about 120,000 miles on it

[lstevens76]

Go pick up your forester and run, not walk, to a different shop. I do mean run!

 

I only checked the knock sensor:

 

1 hour labor

 

OEM part should be under $100.

 

They are DOUBLE CHARGING to do that knock sensor, let alone the rest of it.

[annielumc]

This is the local Subaru dealer. :/

[1 Lucky Texan]

OOPS! (too slow typing)  at that mileage - timing system service is most critical if it hasn't been done.

 

knock sensor is most critical item. many people DIY that with a $20 ebay part - if you research the subject, easy to get right.

the other items will 'last' for some time depending on some details. IF (that's a big if) you can tolerate the smell of the grease hitting the exhaust, the split axle boot does not need immediate attention. yes, best to get a new boot on it soon but - many axles will last months before they experience enough wear to make noise. best approach, regrease and reboot your OEM axle now. next best - do it in a month, after that, may be risky to re-use it. It may last several more months, after which, get one from a junkyard and regrease/reboot it. MUCH better than any aftermarket new or rebuilt.

IF (that's a big if) oil is leaking from the valve cover gaskets onto the sparkplug wire boots - that needs immediate attention. But, if they are just dripping externally, very diligent attention to engine oil level is all that is required. If the crank seal is leaking, that also only requires vigilance as to ol level. If the driver of the car is unable to check oil levels at every gas fill-up or on some other frequent/regular schedule - the engine is at risk.

Ask for a shop recomendation near branchville in a new thread - those services would likely be cheaper at an independent shop familiar with Subarus.

basically, you need a trustworthy mechanic to go over what needs attention today, what you need to save up for, and what you could "just live with".

 

(NOTE: it is a false economy to just put a belt on the timing parts - you NEED new pulleys, those bearings will seize/fail and destroy the engine - do the Timing belt service properly)

Edited May 27, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[annielumc]

We have only had the car for a year and a half and the timing belt had been done along with a slew of other things. I have to pull out the Carfax report they gave us. I have a call in to a trustworthy independent shop to price out the list. I hate to dump a ton of money into it but we can't afford anything much newer and we really like this little car.

[1 Lucky Texan]

any 18 year-old car might need 1 or 2 K$ spent on it to be reliable. If the history of this car is good, might be a great 'student car' for a few years if it's treated well.

 

Those engines do have a reputation for blowing headgaskets - so the cooling system needs a thorough inspection and the driver needs to be trained what to watch for and how to maintain the car. Finding a good Subaru mechanic near Syracuse may be a good idea too. Someplace your daughter could take the car for oil changes and the occasional inspection.

[annielumc]

Thanks for the advice. I mentioned the head gasket concern to the dealer and they told me that because this car has a dual overhead can engine, it shouldn't be a concern? They said that issue is in the 2001 to 2008/9 years?

[ccrinc]

Subaru dealers have never admitted to the DOHC engine head gasket problems.  They were ordered not to by SOA.

 

Those prices are outrageous.  Definitely take it to a reputable independent shop! Valve cover gaskets for $470? Holy crap!  And reboot an axle for $393?  A really good reman'd axle runs about $120 plus 1 hour labor (max.)  At that price, it should be a new axle, not a "fix". 

 

I will also add to the comment that your daughter needs to learn and be conscientious about keeping an eye on fluids, getting the oil changed at proper intervals, etc.  Daddy can't be there to do it for her forever. 

[bratman18]

They are raping their customers with prices pike that. That is insane. Even if you buy an oem knock sensor, it's only around $100, and about 5 minutes to install. Same goes for the rest. Take it elsewhere. Or do the work yourself.

[Fairtax4me]

It is ridiculously easy to change an axle on that car. $390 is probably the cost of a rebuilt subaru axle and about .3 hr labor.

There are many better options for axles than paying $350 for a dealer part.

 

Same goes for the knock sensor. Dealers put huge mark-up on those, and the OE brand (Unisia- Jecs) can be bought on eBay for about $30. Takes 10 minutes to change.

 

Part of their game is to inflate prices so you're tempted to walk over to the sales dept and buy a newer car.

 

Find an independent shop that knows Subarus. All of that can be done for well under $1,000 if you find the right shop.

[annielumc]

Thanks again all! She does check the oil regularly, so we're good with that. The independent shop gave much more reasonable prices and will evaluate what needs to be done right away. I'm getting it away from the dealership this evening......after $100 for them to change the oil and do the evaluation........after I told them we pulled the code for the knock sensor already. ARGH!! Hey, at least I'm not giving them any more $$ than that.

Have a sparkling day!

[1 Lucky Texan]

what dealership was this?

[annielumc]

Subaru dealership in Newton, NJ

[1 Lucky Texan]

Subaru dealership in Newton, NJ

 

thought they sounded familiar; http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/5-dealership-reviews/45720-subaru-world-newton-nj.html

 

some discussion here; http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2264753&highlight=newton

 

still, management changes and any dealership might vary over time in their business practices/style, and people are always quick to post bad experiences. ALL dealerships are expensive and they must always do things 'by the book' to avoid lawsuits, etc.

Edited May 27, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[AdventureSubaru]

There is a lot of practical know-how on this board. Ignore that estimate and look only to pay for labor. Use our knowledge to save $$$ on the parts as well.

 

1. Knock sensor - this is a 10 minute job with a 12mm socket and a long extension. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Front-Knock-Sensor-For-Subaru-Legacy-Forester-Impreza-22060-AA061-/181193382187?fits=Year%3A1998|Make%3ASubaru|Model%3AForester&hash=item2a2ff7992b&vxp=mtr Buy that part. These cheap ones actually last almost as long as the OEM parts.

 

2. Valve cover gaskets. - http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/valve-cover-gasket/felpro-valve-cover-gasket/subaru/forester-awd/1998/4-cylinders-6-2-5l-mfi/23426_57143_0_90284/ There is nothing special or fancy about valve cover gaskets. Find a new set through an auto parts chain. Cheap is ok.

 

3.  Crank seals - http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-SUBARU-2-Camshaft-Cam-1-Crankshaft-Crank-Seal-timing-belt-service-kit-/271532582802?fits=Year%3A1998|Make%3ASubaru|Model%3AForester&hash=item3f389a6792&vxp=mtr or write those part numbers down and pick them up at any subaru dealership parts department.

 

4. Timing kit -http://www.amazon.com/Gates-TCKWP277A-Engine-Timing-Water/dp/B0033DMFI6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432751936&sr=8-1&keywords=1998+subaru+forester+timing+kit Gates kits are well documented to last 80k and more and are far cheaper than Subaru OEM. This kit replaces all idlers and water pump that will likely fail before the belt itself does. That $100. belt they were going to put on would do nothing to extend life of the motor.

 

5. If the axle is not clicking on turns, reboot it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CV-Axle-Joint-Inner-Boot-BT53-Subaru-Impreza-Legacy-Outback-/161688744652?hash=item25a56672cc&vxp=mtr

 

All told in parts, you are under $300. and just shopping for someone who knows subarus and wont charge you ridiculously high prices in labor.

 

Going rates should have you at $500-$900 in labor for the list of work performed here. (Which is still high to me. Whole thing is about 4 hours labor if the car isn't very rusted. The more shopping you do, the better your chances. Find a place that has good reviews. Yelp etc. Be willing to drive a distance for a good shop.

 

I agree that you should have all this done - with new timing components and not just the belt. for around $1000.

[AdventureSubaru]

Thanks for the advice. I mentioned the head gasket concern to the dealer and they told me that because this car has a dual overhead can engine, it shouldn't be a concern? They said that issue is in the 2001 to 2008/9 years?

 

This information could not be more false. The 96-99 dual overhead cam motor was the most notorious motor for head gasket failures. Make sure your daughter is in the habit of watching her temperature gauge regularly when driving and will pull over if it acts up. Also check oil and coolant levels rather regularly. If the head gaskets have not been done yet, they will go at some time. If the motor is not run out of oil/coolant and not overheated/cooked the head gasket job can be done right and made better than factory. That job will be more in the $1500- $2000. range depending on who you go to. Hopefully it's a long way off and if she is careful with it, and checks fluids regularly will prolong life/catch it before it's too bad.

[mikec03]

Everything that has been said is fine.  I just want to emphasize

 

[1] the failure mode of this car is overheating.  So your daughter has to kind of keep an eye on the temperature.  Since you have had it for 1 1/2 years without overheating, that kind of indicates that maybe the HG's were done and done right before you got the car. 

 

[2] call the people who did the timing belt work and get the milage and find out if they replaced the pulleys.  If they did, then you can forget about the timing belt until 60K from the previous replacement.  60K is the normal replacement for the 90's subarus.

 

Fixing the crankshaft leak is kind of expensive.  It's possible that the dealership was guessing.  If it's only a slight deposit at the bottom of the timing belt cover, I would just drive it until the timing belt is replaced. 

[comatosellama]

Go pick up your forester and run, not walk, to a different shop. I do mean run!

 

I only checked the knock sensor:

 

1 hour labor

 

OEM part should be under $100.

 

They are DOUBLE CHARGING to do that knock sensor, let alone the rest of it.

64 dollar. 30 min install, that's first time shadetree time, not a mechanic.

[annielumc]

Thank you all. I took it to an independent shop that I trust and they said not to spend the money on the oil leaks, they are miminal. they did the knock sensor and axle for $500. They said we should really consider replacing the exhaust system, which is a $1500 job. Seems like I can't get away from spending $2000 on this car! I chose not to do anything about the exhaust system yet. They said it has been patched and that there is a leak around one of the brackets. Advice would be appreciated.

[Rooster2]

Subaru exhaust systems never totally wear out, just individual pieces over time. Recommend you find a family owned muffler shop that torch cuts off only what is broken, then welds on new lengths of pipe, or installs new connectors as needed.  That is what I always do, and repair cost is always under $100. Avoid the chain store muffler shops, and repair garages, as they always want to replace the entire system and charge big bucks. Seems like dealerships and private repair garages have a mandate that they must quote the customer something in excess of $500 in order to stay in business.

 

If the leak is at a resonator, simply replace it with a straight pipe. I have done this on both of my Outbacks, and the exhaust is just as quiet, as if the resonator was still on the system.

 

Regarding oil leaks, my two old Outbacks leak some oil mostly from the valve covers. I simply add a can of oil stop leak when I change the oil. It doesn't stop the leak, but cuts back the leak in half. I usually change brands of stop leak at each oil change to let each manufacturer take their best shot at oil leak management. All auto parts store has oil stop leak for sale. It's a patch, not a fix, but I avoid that $500 fix that a repair shop would want to charge.

[desertsubaru]

Learn to do the work yourself. Subes are a great car to learn on. That $500 you spent would probably have been only about $200 if you did it yourself. All the exhaust parts from the engine back to the bumper shouldn't be more then $500 if you shop around. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

down here, we don't suffer from as serious rust issues, but we also have 'mom&pop'-style muffler shops. The advice above is spot on .

 

Again, consider finding a shop or 2 in Syracuse. That way if the exhaust repair has an issue, your daughter could get warranty service locally, same for a tire shop and a mechanic.

 

If there is a Discount Tire in Syracuse, they have oustanding customer servise and may even be able to steer you to an exhaust shop or a mechanic. If your daughter gets a flat or needs any tires - I HIGHLY recommend them.

 

try Yelp, Google for business reviews/ratings or maybe Angie's list. Not a guarantee but, but helps weed-out places with known poor service/work.

[bratman18]

$500 is still wayyy too much. A new axle is $100 or less, and the knock sensor can be had for $20 off ebay, but even $100 or less from a parts store. The axle takes 20 minutes to install and the knock sensor take 10-15. So you were charged $300 for less than an hour labor, plus parts mark up.