H6 3.0 head gasket replacement, what else?

[Zekeuyasha]

So my Dad's Subaru I call "The Oil-less wonder" finally and predictably developed head gasket problems. Had it towed to the dealership with a broken fuel pump, they said they smelled exhaust coming from the radiator cap, says there's an internal coolant leak and quoted us $3000.  Took it back home, repaired the fuel pump at home and ignored the so called gasket leak. Now I know for certain it has a head gasket leak. Cold starts are plagued by misfires and the check engine light comes on. 

I've decided it's time to rebuild the engine. Dad doesn't want a new car and Mom doesn't want a monthly car payment.

Our options are to buy a second hand motor and drop it in, or take out the current motor, get a rental and let me have at it.

 

TLDR: I'm replacing the head gaskets in a Legacy Outback H6 3.0, taking motor out. What else should I replace while I'm down there? I want to do:

Water pump

as many seals as I can reach

piston rings

spark plugs

 

Question about timing chains: Rockauto doesn't seem to have them and I've seen them on google for $100 apiece. Is it a good idea to reuse the chains I have? Also are the gears made of plastic?

[1 Lucky Texan]

seems to me, there's no certainty about the HG leak - except for dealership info.

 

If it had no symptoms of HG leaking before the fuel pump issue (which you MAY have been able to fix for ~$75) why did these symptoms show up at the dealership?

 

I think you might consider getting another opinion. But, if you've made-up your mind, consider measuring the valve clearances and be prepared to adjust any out of spec - not a trivial job.

 

if there is misfiring, that could easily lead to a fuel smell - unburnt fuel.

 

the CEL on? post any codes. If coolant isn't being pushed into the overflow, if no streams of bubbles are seen in the radiator while running - I'd be tempted to think the shop is fishing for some of your $$$.

Edited June 10, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Zekeuyasha]

the CEL is a misfire for cylinder 3 I believe. it's definitely a misfire code but the cylinder number evades my memory.  I'm pretty convinced it's a head gasket. The dealership told me there was bubbles in the coolant and that they smelled like exhaust. The leak was not as bad as they predicted because I spotted a hole in the radiator hose shooting water across the engine compartment when it was running. Replaced those hoses, but coolant is still going somewhere because I'm putting coolant in it every week. Not a lot, but it does go through coolant pretty consistently, and the overflow is always bone dry. Dad told me the temperature went into the hot zone while he had it idling a few days ago. It also goes through a quart of oil every 2 weeks or so. 

I'm convinced it's a head gasket.

 

Also we didn't let the dealership do anything to the car after a $2500 bill for a driveshaft and rear diff plus a few other things while I was away. Then they want another 3 grand for the head gasket? Forget it. 

Metal plate on the fuel pump assembly broke so it wasn't getting fuel, happened before. So I just took the pump from a 2.5 car and put the 3.0 pump into the assembly. Fixed that for $60. 

 

But yes, I do believe it is a head gasket.

[1 Lucky Texan]

OK, I think you need someone else to diagnose this issue. The symptoms you have MAY point to a  coolant leak into a cylinder or into the oil - but 'classic' H4 gasket failures from the late 90s cars pushes coolant into (and sometimes out of) the overflow. I can't recall reading of someone with a dry o'flow tank.

 

I'm not saying you don't have a severe problem that might only be fixed with new HGs, but, you might also try some of the Subaru coolant conditioner as the symptoms you report just might be helped by it. And another shop's opinion for $100 or $200 to possibly avoid thousands might be money well spent. Even something like a coolant system pressure test could confirm that coolant is going into a cylinder. Out out of another bad hose somewhere.

 

have you pulled the plug from the misfiring cyl and compared to another? there are picture guides on line that can help identify problems based on the appearance of a plug. You can also send an oil sample to Blackstone labs to look for coolant.

 

You might also consider a junkyard engine swap - might even find one with a lot fewer miles.

Edited June 11, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Fairtax4me]

Leakdown test will confirm a bad head gasket.

 

But if the coolant is disappearing slow and no trace of it on the ground or on the engine anywhere, probably a head gasket. Certain leaks will not push coolant out of the overflow, but will cause rough cold starting (due to coolant in the cylinder) and low coolant level in the bottle as coolant burns off a little at a time.

[Zekeuyasha]

1 Lucky: My car has the 3 liter H6, so the H4 problems aren't necessarily the same as the H6 problems. I hear it's a great engine and seeing as it lasted this long with my father driving it, I take that as a testament to its strength.

However, the engine has boiled over twice now I think, something must have happened that there isn't a perfect seal on the head gasket. At this point what else could it be? it goes through both oil and coolant, it doesn't have the power it had when we bought it in 2007, it boiled over twice and it misfires in the morning. 

 

My original question is this: When replacing the head gasket, what else should I replace with it? Should I worry about reusing the old timing chains or just go to the dealership and get a new set with the gears and everything? Or just the chains and reuse the old gears? 

[Fairtax4me]

The main sprockets are typically re-used on modern chain setups. Smaller spockets like idlers usually get replaced. If you find there is excessive wear its a good idea to replace.

 

There are nylon tension guides that you should definitely replace. Those can become brittle with age and break

Water pump is also driven by the chain.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Fairtax4me

[idosubaru]

you never mentioned overheating, that's why LT said you didn't have HG issues.  of course, make sure it's not something simple - radiator cap, themostat, radiator clogged, fans not turning on.

 

as to the HG, required stuff:

 

1.  there's a handful of timing chain cover orings - for the rear and front cover.  look them up online or just have Subaru list them all out for you.

 

2. the water pump is chain driven and comes with one oring and you need to purchase another oring with that as well - see parts diagram.

 

3.  there's a water pump/timing cover gasket

 

4.  Resurface the heads - i've done some EZ30 heads and they required A LOT of material removed to get them flat.  I didn't actually measure or test them since I always resurface heads as a rule, but they were notably further out than every 4 cylinder EJ25 i've done.

 

5.  Subaru calls for some of the timing related screws to be replaced - I doubt that really matters though.

 

6.  if you're anal about the valve shims you'll need those but won't know until you measure - i just ground down the side of the shim facing away from the cam lobes so the hardening isn't affected.

 

I wouldn't consider anything else required replacement.   the chains and guides routinely last a long time on engines that never come apart.

the sprockets are solid metal gears and don't need replaced.

If the chain, guides, and tensioners are quiet now, you can leave them.  If they're noisey - replace it all - the chains and tensioners, and guides.

 

The guides are nylon and  get brittle with age - that said no one has really ever had problems with guides, so if replacement is warranted or not is debatable.

*** You don't mention year but some early like 2001's had a timing chain noise issue - never caused problems - just noise.  If you have one of those early ones, it may be advisable to replace everything or look into what part caused that issue and make sure you replace those.

 

the timing tensioners are supplied by oil pressure - i'm uncertain of their fallibility of maybe change them if the oil change history is unknown or not superb.

 

use subaru's opposed forces website to look up any part numbers I've mentioned.

Edited June 12, 2015 by grossgary

[Zekeuyasha]

Thanks grossgary, depending on what my dad decides to do with the car, I'll either replace the gaskets etc or just put a junkyard H6 in it and keep my fingers crossed.

For future knowlege, the car is a 2003 year with 218,000 miles on it.

 

Does anything else on these cars break? Are the transmissions known to blow up? Trying to convince him not to get rid of the car, it's already well lived in

[AdventureSubaru]

Not much else to do if you're sure it's head gaskets. My recommendation would be a good used motor over the head gaskets on this one. These motors aren't known to fail often. You can probably spend about the same amount with a good used motor with lower miles and spend less time wrenching. Out here they can be readily found for $500-$900. Swap is identical in process to any of the Ej motors. Just a tighter fit.

 

Do spark plugs, wires and valve cover gaskets either way whether fixing this motor or putting a used one in as they're a pain with the motor installed.

 

The transmissions are similar if not identical 4EATs as the other subarus of the era. I think I see a slightly higher fail rate for those with the EZ30 motor. I suspect this isn't a defect in the transmission but simply that the trans is under more stress with a higher HP motor and these higher HP cars lend themselves more to being driven by types who wont be very gentle drivers and thus shorter lifespan.

 

If this car has been driven under good responsible driving habits, I would have no worries about the transmission life. 218k should still have plenty of miles left if maintained.

 

As a temporary "band aid" - blue devil seems to be the one thing that will "fix" a leaking subaru head gasket for a time. Not a long term solution but will buy you time to find a good replacement motor or get the $$$/parts together to fix.

[idosubaru]

not really - the fuel pump caps crack at the tabs and the orings spit out.  but it sounds like you probably already had that issue or at least addressed it anyway.

 

the serpentine pulley bearings fail with amazing regularity - i consider them 60,000 mile maintenance items.  $10 for each bearing and only takes 20 minutes though, really easy.

 

transmissions - do well, probably better the more fluid changes it's had.

[ccrinc]

If the engine has been run low on oil, replace those internal tensioners too: they're lubricated by the engine oil.

 

One has to be careful about how much is taken off the heads of EZ30 engines.  Take too much and the chains won't line up properly.  SOA claims that you can't take any off, but that's BS.  We build these engines and always surface the heads, just not too much.

 

Emily

[1 Lucky Texan]

are there MLS gaskets for the H6 ?