New user + brake job question

[trivalence]

Hi all,

 

Earlier this week I bought a 1995 Legacy LS Wagon from a user in this group (he told me is username but I forgot it). He pointed me to this board, which I'm grateful for. This is my first Subaru, but the car is great, and he did a lot of work to it. I just spent the last couple of days cleaning the exterior and interior. I've mostly had Volkswagens (when I was younger anyway), but don't plan on going back.

 

When I test drove the car I thought it had a bad wheel bearing (loud 'wum-wum-wum' noise), but by chance I discovered last night that the rear driver side wheel area was super hot as I passed by it after going out (which seems like it would also explain how it seemed like the car was getting terrible mpg). Compared it to the passenger side, and it was much hotter, so it seems pretty obvious to me that that caliper is toast (and probably the rotor and pads, too).

 

I knew the rear brakes probably needed to be done anyway (the rotors were looking pretty rough, etc), so not a huge deal. I've already ordered new rotors and pads, but have some questions. I'm mechanically inclined, but it's been a little while since I've worked on a car:

 

- Any obvious gotchas on a rear rotors/pads/calipers job like this?

- Does anyone have any recommendations for a basic brake bleed tool (best/cheapest on Amazon, etc)?

- Are remanufactured calipers from Auto Zone generally thought to be ok? (I don't really think rebuilding these are in the cards for me.)

- Is one brake fluid better for these cars than another of the apparent same kind/type?

- Anything I should be doing with the e-brake while back there?

 

Feel free to drop your wisdom on me. Looking forward to getting to know y'all more and learning about these cars!

[Rooster2]

Welcome to USMB with your "new" Subie. I too, gravitated to Subaru after owning many VWs and Audis. Subaru is so much more reliable then VW products. I was forever fixing little problems on my Vdubs.

 

As far as working on Subie rear brakes, pretty sure your LS wagon has disc brakes. They are very easy to work on. With the brake heat up, I am thinking you have a bad caliper, that is not releasing the pressure on the brake pad, when your foot is off the brake. Or, a stuck slide pin keeping pressure on the brake pad, could be the problem. When removing the brake pads, if you can't get the slide pin to move, then that is your problem. Yea, rebuilt caliper from AZ should work just fine. It comes with new slide pins. I bought several calipers from there with no problems. I use ceramic brake pads. They seem to last a good while, and don't deposit brake dust on the road wheels.

 

Buy a "one man" bleeder tool to bleed the brakes. Works real well. EZ to use

 

Standard DOT 3 brake fluid is all you need. Works just fine.

 

If e-brake works fine, then don't mess with it.

 

When installing new brake pads, be sure to grease the slide pins

 

Hope the above info helps. Ask more questions, if you have them . Everyone here will be glad to help you.

[jmoss5723]

Use a bunch of PB Blaster ahead of the time on the bolts that attach the caliper bracket to the knuckle. Heck put it on all of the bolts. And probably heat the bolts up good with a torch. I broke bolts on each of the last 3 Subarus that I did brakes on. All in the same week, too 

 

I just use a plastic cup, a piece of vinyl tubing, and a buddy for my brake bleed kit.

 

I've used reman calipers from Advance Auto before with good results. You should make certain that the caliper itself is stuck, though. I've only had 1 caliper seize on 7 new gen subarus. But I've had quite a few stuck guide pins in the caliper bracket. It is WAY cheaper to just replace the bracket and pins than the whole thing. Just make sure you only fix what's broken.

 

In my experience, for general street use or commuting, brake fluid is brake fluid, so long as it is the right kind.

 

You can make sure the e-brake is properly adjusted by turning the little adjuster do-hickies on the back side of the brakes.

[bratman2]

You have a slide rail that the caliper kind of floats on. It can get dry and corrosion on it which can cause a caliper to not float back. Happened on the front of my daughter's 93 Legacy. The caliper itself was fine, rotor was toast, pad was toast. I wouldn't buy rebuilt calipers unless I knew they were the problem. I preferred Subaru rotors which may cost more but can be ordered on line to save some money. I have little knowledge of the E-brake so hopefully someone else will come along. For bleeding I have a little 4 once bottle with magnet and hose I purchased for a little of nothing. The bottle has a one way valve in it allowing easy bleeding. You just have to dump the bottle a few times each wheel to completely flush the system. I have used it for years and I will do a search and see if I can find who made it. Any decent brand dot 3 fluid will work. I would price factory pads along with the rotors for a price comparison. They may not be that much difference price wise and if so that is what I would go with. Matter of fact that is what I did , factory rotor and pads! Greased the slide rails slightly, flushed the brake system and sent her on her way! By the way I am no brake expert so my advice is worth what you invested in it, lol~!

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILMAR-W80625-BRAKE-BLEEDER-KIT-/311383010774?hash=item487fdfadd6&item=311383010774&vxp=mtr

Edited June 19, 2015 by bratman2

[trivalence]

Thanks so much already! One correction:

 

I said Auto Zone, but I meant Advance Auto. I don't now if there's honestly much of a difference between reman calipers from those two big box stores, but I thought I'd specify just in case.

 

I'll look into greasing the slide rail first. This is a lame question: what sort of grease should I get for this type of job (slash, future jobs I guess).

 

Hoping I won't need the new calipers.

[trivalence]

Welcome to USMB with your "new" Subie. I too, gravitated to Subaru after owning many VWs and Audis. Subaru is so much more reliable then VW products. I was forever fixing little problems on my Vdubs.

 

Agreed. Not planning on going back to VAG cars anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILMAR-W80625-BRAKE-BLEEDER-KIT-/311383010774?hash=item487fdfadd6&item=311383010774&vxp=mtr

 

Perfect, thanks for the link! That's just what I needed.

[Rooster2]

Wouldn't be surprised if AZ and Advance use the same caliper rebuilder. I have used Advanced as well as AZ with no problems from each.

 

Any grease will work. It takes nothing special to grease the slide pins. Some guys will re-grease the slide pins every couple of years, particularly if they live in the snow belt, where a lot of salt is used on the roads.

 

In the past, I have had to buy a new, rebuilt caliper, because the slide pin was so rusted that it could not be removed, even when using heat, and PB Blaster. New slide pins and bracket come with a new caliper. Advance Auto has good discount coupons, when ordering on line. Often, you can buy on line, then pick up parts at the store.

[Rooster2]

Agreed. Not planning on going back to VAG cars anytime soon.

 

 

Perfect, thanks for the link! That's just what I needed.

Yea, that is the one man bleeder I have. Works great.

[bratman2]

I type so slow!! Nobody had responded when I had started. looking at the times of post I really suck at typing!!!

[bratman2]

Reason I suggested factory was that was what I used was recommended by a couple of long time board users back then, this was a quite few years ago!!! Advance, Autozone are probably fine. I just have no experience with them on that but it seems others have which will probably save you dollars!!!

[trivalence]

 Advance Auto has good discount coupons, when ordering on line. Often, you can buy on line, then pick up parts at the store.

 

Exactly why I was hoping AA would work. They have a 20% coupon at the moment (plus you can get cashback through places like ebates), so new reman complete calipers are like $41 each (after cores). Yes, buy online and pick up in store. Plus here in Cville we have two stores, which helps as well. Win-win!

[Rooster2]

Exactly why I was hoping AA would work. They have a 20% coupon at the moment (plus you can get cashback through places like ebates), so new reman complete calipers are like $41 each (after cores). Yes, buy online and pick up in store. Plus here in Cville we have two stores, which helps as well. Win-win!

AA always has the 20% coupon available when ordering on line. However, you can get even better coupons if you Google "Advance Auto coupons." Coupons available up to 30% off, or $40-$50 off, if your total purchase is over $100-$125.

[trivalence]

AA always has the 20% coupon available when ordering on line. However, you can get even better coupons if you Google "Advance Auto coupons." Coupons available up to 30% off, or $40-$50 off, if your total purchase is over $100-$125.

 

Thanks Rooster2! I like to think of myself as a very savvy online shopper, but totally didn't think to look for a better coupon. Got it!

[trivalence]

How big of a c-clamp should I buy for this job?

[Rooster2]

How big of a c-clamp should I buy for this job?

5 or 6 inch. I think I bought mine as a set. Don't cost much at Harbor Freight store, if you have one near by.

[Fairtax4me]

You must have bought Upnorthguy's car.

 

I've bought rebuilt calipers from advance auto on several occasions and they seem to hold up OK. The only thing I make sure of with those is the slide pin dust boots are often very poor quality, and don't actually seal to the caliper bracket. I just swap the old dust boot from the old caliper onto the new one.

 

Good chance the brake fluid is in need of a flush if the caliper is locked up. You should check each bleeder screw to make sure they will all crack loose.

The one-man bleeder kits at advance work fairly well. I typically just use some clear plastic tubing stuck in a clear 20oz bottle. Then you get to see just how nasty the old fluid is.

 

I'm in Cville so you can give me a shout if you need help. Welcome to the board!

[trivalence]

You must have bought Upnorthguy's car.

 

I've bought rebuilt calipers from advance auto on several occasions and they seem to hold up OK. The only thing I make sure of with those is the slide pin dust boots are often very poor quality, and don't actually seal to the caliper bracket. I just swap the old dust boot from the old caliper onto the new one.

 

Good chance the brake fluid is in need of a flush if the caliper is locked up. You should check each bleeder screw to make sure they will all crack loose.

The one-man bleeder kits at advance work fairly well. I typically just use some clear plastic tubing stuck in a clear 20oz bottle. Then you get to see just how nasty the old fluid is.

 

I'm in Cville so you can give me a shout if you need help. Welcome to the board!

 

I did indeed. He said you were here in Cville, and that you're quite the guru. Thanks for the warm welcome and the generous offer.

 

I'll make sure to move the boots over, that's a great tip.

[jmoss5723]

Use a grease specifically for brakes. They are designed to take high heat, the can has a little brush in it so that you don't get all greasy applying it, and it works well because it is for this specific application. I've used this exact stuff for years and it works great >> http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/permatex-ultra-disc-brake-caliper-lube-8-oz-24110/12027858-P Put it on the backs of the pads, the pad clips/guides, and the pins.

 

While you're at it, you should buy some Anti-Seize.http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-8-oz-80078/7070021-P A container like this is practically a lifetime supply. If you put that on the threads of all of the bolts, next time you need to do a brake job, it won't turn into a BREAK job and you will be able to skip the PB blaster and the torch.

[trivalence]

Thanks jmoss5723. I added those to my AA cart.

[upnorthguy]

Good to see you made, trivalence!

Yeah, the rear brakes were one of the few spots on my wagon that I didn't get around to addressing.  I probably should have dug into those and done what you are going to do (grease the slides, etc.).  They didn't cause a failure of the VA safety inspection, so I was still riding along.  The rear rotors were definitely scored some.  When I replaced the front calipers with the dual piston Outbacks I did flush brake fluid through the front end, but I didn't do a full flush through the rear calipers.

 

I replaced just about everything else along the way while working on the mileage.  It seemed better on the drive to C-ville, and I rarely took it on long road trips as my Civic was the designated long haul vehicle of the family (due to the really good mileage) so I chalked some of it to the very short trips around NoVA.

 

I forgot to add into the info I passed along that I replaced the front O2 sensor with a Denso from Rockauto so that is only a few months old (the old one was in one of the parts boxes I gave you since I wasn't sure it was bad).

Edited June 21, 2015 by upnorthguy

[trivalence]

Good to see you made, trivalence!

Yeah, the rear brakes were one of the few spots on my wagon that I didn't get around to addressing.  I probably should have dug into those and done what you are going to do (grease the slides, etc.).  They didn't cause a failure of the VA safety inspection, so I was still riding along.  The rear rotors were definitely scored some.  When I replaced the front calipers with the dual piston Outbacks I did flush brake fluid through the front end, but I didn't do a full flush through the rear calipers.

 

I replaced just about everything else along the way while working on the mileage.  It seemed better on the drive to C-ville, and I rarely took it on long road trips as my Civic was the designated long haul vehicle of the family (due to the really good mileage) so I chalked some of it to the very short trips around NoVA.

 

I forgot to add into the info I passed along that I replaced the front O2 sensor with a Denso from Rockauto so that is only a few months old (the old one was in one of the parts boxes I gave you since I wasn't sure it was bad).

 

Thanks upnorthguy! Really glad to be apart of this site/forum.

 

No worries. I'm honestly kind of glad it's just the rear brakes, seems like it'll be a way easier job than the front wheel bearing. I'm going to replace both calipers, just for good measure. The rotors and pads are already on the way, as is the one-man bleeder kit bratman2 recommended. Hopefully this week I'll knock it all out.

 

Oh and baby came on Saturday! 8 lbs, 6 oz, 20" long. Both she and E are doing really well; it was about as perfect of a birth as could be asked for, praise God.

 

Hope your marathon went well! And your 'other marathon' in the form of all the life busyness.

[Fairtax4me]

Great to hear everyone is well! Congrats!

[keith3267]

Personally, I do not like the ceramic pads sold by either Advanced or AutoZone.  I have AutoZone pads on one vehicle right now and they have not lasted very long and they have torn up the rotors, which ceramic pads are not supposed to do.  I have also been hit or miss on several calipers from AutoZone, I haven't gotten any from Advanced.

My preference is Wagner parts from O'Rielly's.  I don't get much from them, but I do go to them for all my brake parts now, except for the truck which has the lifetime ceramic pads from AutoZone.  AutoZone gives me free pads when mine wear out, which is pretty frequently.  The old Duralast pads lasted about twice as long as their new ceramics.  No trouble with Wagner OEM ceramic pads though.

 

OK, so much for my opinion on brake parts.  When you bleed and or flush the brakes, be sure the master cylinder does not go dry.  This is critical.  If it goes dry, then it has to be bench bled, and that means removing it.  That is a real PITA.  Siphon out the old fluid in the reservoir and refill with fresh.

 

I generally just gravity flush the brake system.  Instead of those one man brake bleed sets at $8 each, I get a length of clear vinyl fish tank tubing from the pet section of Walmart, about $3.  I cut it into 2' or so lengths, enough to go from the bleed valve, up and over a nearby component and then down pointing into a bucket or container of some kind.  Its important that the tubing goes up higher than the bleed valve itself by at least a couple of inches so that the tube fills up with brake fluid in this section and cannot draw air back into the caliper.

 

You can open one, two or all four valves at once if you want and just let the brake fluid drain through the system, but make sure the master cylinder reservoir does not go dry.  You have to be pretty quick if you try all 4 at once though.  Start with the back wheels first.  It does not matter which side as long as you do both back wheels first and then the fronts.  The old pattern of RR, LR, RF, LF only applied to the single master cylinder brake systems of the 60's and earlier and a few o the early dual systems in the 70's that did not use the X layout of the brake lines.

[bratman2]

Congratulations!!!