bgambino Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 So my cousin found this GT turbo for me..... 93k On start up it blows a tremendous cloud of smoke...I mean big! I have never seen anything like it. I was afraid the neighbor might call the fire dept..>! When warmed up and idling for awhile it settles down but hit the gas and it bellows. Pretty white in color. No real power...barely moves out of it's own way. I assume it's choking on anti-freeze. (THE pic attached does NOT show the real pillows of smoke that it can do---I forgot to take one) Head gaskets THAT bad? Cracked head/block? I got it cheap so I am thinking of selling it as-is but......is it possible that it could be Anything more simple?? Another way coolant could be getting in there? I am just taking a shot in the dark before I pull the trigger on selling it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yea, looks like coolant vaporizing. Agree, cracked head, or bad head gasket is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (note---no water in oil--no oil in water) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (note---no water in oil--no oil in water) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 is coolant level dropping? does the vapor smell sweet? could possibly be the seals on the turbo bearing - would expect bluish color though if oil......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What...are you opening a used car lot now, Bill? If the "smoke" is as white as you say (and it appears), coolant has gotten into the catalytic converter(s). My guess is the coolant line to the turbocharger. (Sometimes, it's the little, simple things that get overlooked.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Looks to me like the Turbo is toast. Used to see a Saab or three a week doing exactly that when I was at the Sabb dealer here. Edited July 13, 2015 by Fairtax4me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hey ccr...is that you Emily? Both you and Fairtax.......I am encouraged that maybe it is fixable.....I have questions Fair---is that Saab an oil leak in the turbo or antifreeze (or not sure)? I have yet to find any vids on youtube of antifreeze leaking out of the turbo and into the exhaust stream....thought I would If it is a leak of AF into the turbo...why would the overflow tank bubble and fill up after shut down? That is not normal (motor temp is normal) OK...what to do at this point? I just bought one of those CO2 testers....I guess I should test it out tonite If CO2 present....there is HG or cracked block or head If not....it could be a false negative.... I will take some pics and video of the smoke too altho I have no idea how to post the video or if I can here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 oh...and Emily....no...just got very lucky twice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Its oil. The turbo is shot. The bearings get chewed up and the turbine shaft starts wobbling around all over and ruins the oil seals. Is coolant pushing out of the reservoir? That means the head gaskets are bad too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 There's a company called Blouch Turbo in PA. Very reliable, good quality rebuilt turbochargers. (New ones are hideously expensive.) We've used their products many times and never had a single problem. Emily (...waves...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks for the info Emily Okay let me give what little history I know and have recently found out about this car. I bought it sight unseen. Was about 2 hours from me in Long Island. My cousin works for a tow shop/body shop. His boss towed the car to a mechanic shop for the customer. This non Subaru private shop said the engine was shot. My cousin contacted me and asked if I was interested in the car for $800? After seeing some pics I said heck yeah! (later I found out his boss got it for 600 and made a quick 200 on me---who cares haha...his loss for not keeping it..!!) Since then I spoke to my cousin and got just a little more info He said that the owner told him that he had a $1500 exhaust put on (Looks like thick Stainless steel...its not all the way to the front though)....he claims it overheated on him at some point and he blames the fact that they never "replaced" the 02 sensors (as if to say they did not take the old ones out and put new ones on. I'm pretty sure I saw the wire going to the front one---I have to double check that both stock ones are there---but cats "look" like they are stock). Now this does not make a lot of sense to me. Even non functioning 02 sensors should not cause over heat If it overheated...the question is why? Overheating could definitely have blown the turbo. I do agree that I think it is oil blowing all that smoke. When the car was flat bedded to me, I noticed the oil was at the bottom of the dip stick and dirty. I changed it (have not monitored the levels yet--I should). I also seem to hear an intermittent rattle or something near the turbo while it idles. Also....the antifreeze is super clean and with a fresh green color. I have to think that it was recently changed Over the weekend I used (for the first time) the CO2 test kit with the vials filled with the blue fluid. I did it twice and repeatedly squeezed the bulb many times...negative on the color change The one thing I should do is run the car for awhile and check that gurgling and the pushing of the Afreeze into the overflow tank...see if it happens all the time. Temp gauge operates totally normal during warm up and sticks where it should during idle. If it is gurgling, I have no idea why. If it were coming a HG leak, that could only happen while engine is running So...aside from the suggestions from you guys forthcoming, I need to do these things: 1--Monitor and test the gurgling after shut sown---does it happen all the time? Is there any oil at all in a freeze in overflow tank 2--Monitor oil level on dip stick 3--check to be sure both 02 sensors are there and wired up If I buy a rebuilt turbo.....and then drive and find out it over heats.....I'm not sure where that puts me Can you get a false negative on the CO2 test? Maybe the head gaskets are shot also. Maybe a turbo is all it needs. Not knowing for sure if the HGs are bad, maybe its better to sell the car as-is....with a bad turbo. I did get a negative on the CO2 test. I might be ahead of the game if selling it now. Oh what to do....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) does the vapor out the back smell like toasted marshmallows? If not - it isn't coolant. checking shaft play and other tests should be done on the turbo. maybe measuring oil pressure too? If you absolutely need to know if combustion products are in the coolant, start with a leakdown test and maybe also send a fluid sample to Polaris or Blackstone labs? Edited July 16, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I literally cannot tell you how many 2.5 turbo engines we have rebuilt specifically for the 2005 model year, none of them STi models. They had/have a horrible problem with oiling to the bearings, owners don't check or change the oil often enough, etc. etc. It was just a particularly bad year for turbo engines. If any debris gets into the turbo (like filings from disintegrating bearings) or the oil is not changed faithfully, or the oil runs low (which you have already verified), the turbocharger is also affected because it is lubricated by the engine oil. Also affected are the cam phasers on the intake cam gears. They are not designed to be serviceable in any way. If the O2 sensors are gone or not hooked up, I'm thinking it would run like crap, if it would even run. Bad ones/missing ones can also create a run rich condition which will thin out the oil, causing bearing wear and inadequate lubrication. (Incidentally, so will a bad coolant temperature sensor, located on the coolant crossover pipe.) It's quite possible that the car never overheated, but if the previous owner said it did, that compromises the bearings even more. From what you're saying, I'm not getting any sense that happened, but the new coolant is rather suspicious. It could be as simple as blowing that turbo cooling line I mentioned before. However, in this case, I would dump the car for whatever you have into it (plus $200 ) because it's (IMHO) about to become a money pit. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'll tell you....I have been driving subarus since 1980..... They just seem to be riddled with some bad designs....most notably the HG issues for almost 10 years It's disappointing to a loyal enthusiast Emily....that's NOT the answer I wanted to hear haha I can't complain....I'm sure I can sell it for $3500.....I was just looking for an easy fix and a bigger killing (hey, they rarely come around like this) Let's see what other suggestions pop up though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I noticed the oil was at the bottom of the dip stick and dirty. That's probably why the turbo blew. Pull the intake tube off the turbo and reach in and check the shaft for play. It's probably pretty wobbly. Hydrocarbon testing of the antifreeze quite often yields inconclusive results on these cars. There are a few good surefire ways to identify failed head gaskets. One is lots of bubbles in the overflow, but you may not see this on a turbo engine because the expansion tank is pressurized. If you're getting a surge of bubbles after shutting the engine off that could just be due to an air pocket in the system. The other surefire way to pick out bad head gaskets is a leak-down test. Putting compressed air into the cylinders will force air into the cooling system if the head gaskets are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) ok....who here has done a leak down test?? What I understand is that I need to get each cylinder to TDC and tap 30 PSI into the C. Chamber...and look for bubbles in coolant--is that correct? How do I find TDC for cyl 1---2004 WRX Once found, my understanding is that I just need to turn crank 1/4 turn and then #3 cyl is ready to be tested then same for 2 & 4 That sound correct? Also...see pic of label under the hood.....I was looking for the size of the engine.....I was a little confused by the "2.5" about the 2.0L on the line below it I assume this is a 2.0L turbo and not a 2.5? I need this info for getting brake pads etc Edited July 20, 2015 by bgambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Look on the block to the right of the power steering pump for the stamp. That isn't relevant to the engine in the car ad it's listing both. Also on the driver's side fender well there should be a plate affixed that is stamped with what engine came in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) you will get a piston at TDC/valves closed every 180* turn in the firing order. 1-3-2-4 also, there are half-a-dozen youtube videos for Subaru leak down tests. Edited July 20, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The '05 Legacy GT will have the EJ25 turbo engine, not the EJ20. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) in post 17, he said it was an 04 WRX . Edited July 20, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 sorry Em....I threw a proverbial wrench in there ...as you know I am working on 2 jobs at once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 sorry Em....I threw a proverbial wrench in there ...as you know I am working on 2 jobs at once Specifics! Specifics! Geesh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 If you throw too many wrenches you won't have any left to work with! Leakdown tests are usually done at 100 psi. 100 psi through the leakdown regulator and the leak guage shows percentage of leak based on how much pressure stays in the cylinder. So at 100 psi, if the cylinder maintains 90 psi, that's a 10% leak. Which can be normal depending on the engine manufacturer. A quick and dirty leakdown test can be done with a compression guage hose. Take the shrader valve out of the end, thread it into the cylinder, then stick the shop air hose on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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