superpoo93 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Let me first apologize for the book you are about to read....... I have a 93 Subaru Loyale EA82 SPFI that was having lack of power issues and idling really bad... also pinging and heating up under load. A little smoke out of exhaust and no milky oil. I did a compression test and all cylinder pressures were 95-120...except for one cylinder which was at 30psi. It also made no change when removing spark plug. Once I had the head off, I discovered two issues; cracks between the valves had creeped deep into the bowls and the head gasket did not look so hot. I went ahead and put a rebuilt head on the passenger side. So I got the timing set again and bolted everything back on and waited a couple of hours before trying to start it. It starts right up but the idle is a little shakey but not bad. So i turn it off after just a minute. Waited until the next day to let her really warm up, everything looks good. I took her for a spin, and its back to lack of power and she starts to stall at stops. Drove up a not-so-steep hill and it was bad again; pinging and then a poof of smoke out the back. Not sure what color but almost sure it was not white. My car has never smoked ever. So then it started to heat just enough to notice she was struggling. Well now there is white smoke coming from the filler tube. I thought it was coolant, but it it smells like fuel/exhaust more leaning towards fuel..so i decide to test the PSI again. The same cylinder that was 30psi is now 60psi...all others are the same as the last time. I check the EGR valve and found it to be kind of stuck so I changed it out with a better one... No change in engine performance. Whatcha think new rings??? Sorry again for very long story.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) [Never Mind...] Edited July 27, 2015 by Crazyeights 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 While it's probably likely that the head indeed needed changing due to the cracking, that's not going to have any curative effect on bad rings. 30psi certainly sounds like that's the problem, but a leak down test would pin point it better. Certainly sounds like you have worn rings to me. (BTW, if the timing was off, ALL 4 cylinders would be affected, not just the one.) Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-tombba- Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 While it's probably likely that the head indeed needed changing due to the cracking, that's not going to have any curative effect on bad rings. 30psi certainly sounds like that's the problem, but a leak down test would pin point it better. Certainly sounds like you have worn rings to me. (BTW, if the timing was off, ALL 4 cylinders would be affected, not just the one.) Emily In EA82 there can be only 2 cylinders affected since it has one two belts. But yeah it should affect at least two cylinders if it would be timing problem. +1 for the leak test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Had similar no blow any weed, but idled fine, drove fine, powered fine until up a steep run turned me into JB007 smoke screen. Suspect that the later found 60 psi in one pot 120 in all others - EA82T heads off, bore looked a bit roughed up in that low cylinder suspect it was blow by - cylinder combustion pressure getting past maybe not worn rings, maybe stuck gunked up rings, into sump chamber, presurising it to escape up and out the rear breather the efi blocks have, as I was going up steep slope - easy path for it to then smother my air intake. Time and time again, clear up oil burning and would run smoothest , quietest, hardest pulling EA82T ever had. Still sits in shed, heads off needing further investigation .....seven years now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Not a happy camper. I reset timing belts again, stilll have same result. Rough idle, and slow to accelerate. Engine will rev up but still slow and shakey off idle. Still have smokey white fumes coming out of oil filler. Ugh :-/. Plugs are good, no vaccum leaks that i can find. I forgot to mention that the engine has 200.000+ miles. If I do find the rings to be bad. Would it be ok to hone and replace rings?? Or go for a complete rebuild?? Frustrated!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Power issue could be fuel pressure related(change fuel filter, check fuel pressure). Idle/stalling issues IAC or worn distributor. The wires into the IAC plug can become intermittent. Check with ohm meter while wiggling the wires (disconnect battery first though). Edited July 28, 2015 by MR_Loyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 check your intake gaskets. they are notoriously crappy for non dealer versions. you said you couldnt find any vacuum leaks, how did you check? try a smoke test if your a smoker/vapor or use carb cleaner if not. just spray or blow onto the intake base and around the motor. you can tell when its sucking air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Not a happy camper. I reset timing belts again, stilll have same result. Rough idle, and slow to accelerate. Engine will rev up but still slow and shakey off idle. Still have smokey white fumes coming out of oil filler. Ugh :-/. Plugs are good, no vaccum leaks that i can find. I forgot to mention that the engine has 200.000+ miles. If I do find the rings to be bad. Would it be ok to hone and replace rings?? Or go for a complete rebuild?? Frustrated!!!! Dude...please. If you have low compression in one cylinder (as you have already stated), it is NOT a "simple" external fix. It is NOT the timing, the plugs, the wires, an intake gasket or any other magically easy thing to remedy. Do the leak down test: it will point to where the problem is. To get to the rings, you have to split the block. At 200,000+ miles, you would definitely have to replace the rod and main bearings and everything else. Once you split the block, you are looking at a complete rebuild. Or a used engine. There is a small (very small) chance that your oil and compression rings in that cylinder are simply gunked up with crud. I've seen it more times than I can count. They get positively baked into the ring grooves to where they simply won't come out even during engine tear down. You can try (and I do mean "TRY") this to degunk them: do an oil change, but replace one quart of oil with one quart of Rislone (old time engine cleaner, but the stuff just works). Drive the car about 50 miles, then change the oil again. You might get lucky: at least it's a fairly cheap fix to try. This won't be a permanent fix, but could buy you some improvement. Emily 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-tombba- Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 No need to take the block apart when taking pistons of in ea82 engine. Heads ofcourse do need to come off but piston pins can be removed from the maintenance plugs in front and rear of the block. Ofcourse when in thqt stage it is easy to take blocks apart and change the bottom end bearings at the same time. But just taking the pistons out gives a good image of the engine condition too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 ... There is a small (very small) chance that your oil and compression rings in that cylinder are simply gunked up with crud. I've seen it more times than I can count. They get positively baked into the ring grooves to where they simply won't come out even during engine tear down. You can try (and I do mean "TRY") this to degunk them: do an oil change, but replace one quart of oil with one quart of Rislone (old time engine cleaner, but the stuff just works). Drive the car about 50 miles, then change the oil again. ... Also, a Quart of Marvel Mystery Oil had worked great in similar cases. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Thank ypu all. Everyone has given me sound advice. I will do the leak down test and gunk cleaner and post results. I will update you late tomorrow. Thank again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Uh??? I set the tester on zero before hooking up to cylinder, but as soon as I connected the line both gauges went to zero. So I turned the regulator till pressure built up to 12psi and second gauge was on zero. #2 #3 #4 with compressor on and air pressure applied @ constant 12psi it loses cylinder pressure 20% but heads back towards 0 and beyond when kicks off. Not hearing a lot of hissing fron oil filler ..very slight. #1 same but a lot more hissing I rotated each piston TDC, checked with screw driver. I was paranoid so rechecked each one by rotating with air applied. I listened for the intake opening and closing... continued to rotate through until I could not hear hissing through intake or exhaust. So, Im doing something wrong?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Im gping to try degunk the rings next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 1. Place the engine on TDC for the cylinder to be tested.2. Remove that cylinder's spark plug - and only that cylinder's plug.3. Screw the leak down tester's connection hose into the spark plug hole (this is better done on a cool engine).4. Connect the tester to the hose.5. Connect a regulated air supply set at 100 psi to the tester.6. Read the gauge. Some testers use two gauges; one measures air in, one measures air held in the chamber.7. Remove the tester and hose, manually turn the engine to the next cylinder - repeat.Also: http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-leakdown-testing.html NOTE: leak down tests need to be done on an engine that is at normal operating temperature! Hope this helps. Emily 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 1. Place the engine on TDC for the cylinder to be tested. 2. Remove that cylinder's spark plug - and only that cylinder's plug. 3. Screw the leak down tester's connection hose into the spark plug hole (this is better done on a cool engine). 4. Connect the tester to the hose. 5. Connect a regulated air supply set at 100 psi to the tester. 6. Read the gauge. Some testers use two gauges; one measures air in, one measures air held in the chamber. 7. Remove the tester and hose, manually turn the engine to the next cylinder - repeat. Also: http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-leakdown-testing.html NOTE: leak down tests need to be done on an engine that is at normal operating temperature! Hope this helps. Emily I used Sea Foam in the crankcase and it made no real difference. I did a final leak down test after running the Sea Foam through. #1, #2, and #4 are all between 20-25% loss #3. 40%+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I'd run the engine to warm it up, pull the spark plug out of the dead cylinder, rotate the crank until it's partway up the compression stroke, and fill the cylinder with seafoam/marvel mystery oil through the spark plug hole. Then leave it for a couple hours or longer. Pile a bunch of rags over the spark plug hole and crank the engine over to blow out all the oil in the cylinder, put the plug back in, and go beat the hell out of the engine. Hard acceleration, hard engine braking. If that doesn't free the rings, you have to take it apart and do it mechanically. My sister's civic flooded out this past winter. The spark plugs were worn out, and she cranked it until the battery was dead, so a lot of fuel got washed in without being lit. She then left it buried in snow for a couple months. When I went to check it out in the spring, it had no compression. It spun over so easy with the starter that I thought the timing belt was broken. I oiled the cylinders and put new plugs in and it fired up, but burned a ton of oil. I got it hot, sucked seafoam into the intake, and let it sit for an hour, then beat the piss out of it. Voila! No more oil burning. The rings were all gummed from sitting soaked in gas for a couple months, and the seafoam was able to free them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) I'd run the engine to warm it up, pull the spark plug out of the dead cylinder, rotate the crank until it's partway up the compression stroke, and fill the cylinder with seafoam/marvel mystery oil through the spark plug hole. Then leave it for a couple hours or longer. Pile a bunch of rags over the spark plug hole and crank the engine over to blow out all the oil in the cylinder, put the plug back in, and go beat the hell out of the engine. Hard acceleration, hard engine braking. If that doesn't free the rings, you have to take it apart and do it mechanically. Edit: quote name="WoodsWagon" ################<<<<# I did as you said, but sadly no change.... :-( A transplant, is on its way to me. The engine should be replaced in a couple weeks. I will inspect the rings once I get the engine out. Edited August 9, 2015 by superpoo93 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 ... A transplant, is on its way to me. The engine should be replaced in a couple weeks. I will inspect the rings once I get the engine out. Good Luck with the Engine's Transplant. Let us know the results of the old engine's inspection. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Update to come soon.... Been very busy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Also, a Quart of Marvel Mystery Oil had worked great in similar cases. Kind Regards. Edit added correct quote: Dude...please. If you have low compression in one cylinder (as you have already stated), it is NOT a "simple" external fix. It is NOT the timing, the plugs, the wires, an intake gasket or any other magically easy thing to remedy. Do the leak down test: it will point to where the problem is. To get to the rings, you have to split the block. At 200,000+ miles, you would definitely have to replace the rod and main bearings and everything else. Once you split the block, you are looking at a complete rebuild. Or a used engine. There is a small (very small) chance that your oil and compression rings in that cylinder are simply gunked up with crud. I've seen it more times than I can count. They get positively baked into the ring grooves to where they simply won't come out even during engine tear down. You can try (and I do mean "TRY") this to degunk them: do an oil change, but replace one quart of oil with one quart of Rislone (old time engine cleaner, but the stuff just works). Drive the car about 50 miles, then change the oil again. You might get lucky: at least it's a fairly cheap fix to try. This won't be a permanent fix, but could buy you some improvement. Emily Both of you called it!!!! #1 middle compression/wiper ring is totally stuck.edit** correction Edit*. It was #3 middle compression/wiper ring is totally stuck, not #1 I removed and cleaned it but there seemed to be a rough spot near the gap where it was stuck. Also even with out a feeler guage, there seems to be a tolerance issue. Very tight still... Maybe using a piston ring cleaner would really clean iout. Edited October 8, 2015 by superpoo93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well now you know what I know. Sorry, it took so long to update. Oh, and by the way engine transplant was a success. Thanks to I75eya!! Magpie's heart lives on!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That motor should last you a very very long time. I imagine it's only got about 85k on it about now. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 That motor should last you a very very long time. I imagine it's only got about 85k on it about now. :-) Damn! 85,032 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 As you can see tge ring is flush with piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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