How many miles is too many miles to put a new engine in?

[Yotanut]

I am new to the forum, but not subaru's.

 

I was given a 2002 impreza sport outback that is a really well maintained 2 owner car. The lady owner keep up with all the maintenance. It has 340,xxx miles on the chassis, 150,000 on its second motor before it had a rod start knocking.i was thinking of putting a remanufactured engine from Colorado components rebuilders. Motor is about $3600. Am I wasting my time and money? Should I find a junkyard motor, or a JDM low mile motor, or scrap the car? Other than the stated the car is clean and everything else works. Any real advice is welcome. Thanks.

[Yotanut]

Here she is.

[Fairtax4me]

Do what fits your budget. If the car isn't rusty, might as well keep driving it.

[Yotanut]

Are the jDM motors a good deal or drove hard, put up wet? Anyone have experiance with them? I would think they might slack on the maintenance knowing they are gonna pull them out anyway.

[Flowmastered87GL]

I had a used JDM motor in my old GL and I got 100,000 miles of really hard use out of it.  Had I been easier on it I am sure it would have lasted longer.

 

If the car is not rusty I would do a JDM engine if you can get it cheap enough... keep in mind you should often reseal the engines (some new oil seals, new water pump, timing belt, etc) before putting it in.  The CCR engine will be ready to go in as-is so factor that in to the cost (and the CCR engines are really good).  If the car is rusty, junk it and get something else.

[Yotanut]

No rust, that's why I'm torn. Do I need to worry about the manual trans? Not making any funky noises or grinding or popping out of gear. Does the manual trans hold up after that many miles? Just don't want it to turn into the money pit

[ccrinc]

Obviously, I can't make any comment here on the engine question (conflict of interest and all that), but whichever way you go, you really should do the clutch at the same time unless it was done very recently.  If a shop does the install, most won't charge any extra labor because the parts need to be swapped anyway.  Save yourself the labor costs for down the road.

 

Emily

[Yotanut]

Yes, comment! You should sell me on "why" your motor in such a high mile car! I really wish it was a turbo! I am actually looking for your input being your the subaru whisperer!

[Yotanut]

Emily, seriously I've called your shop, and emailed you on Facebook. I would love to hear pros and cons on the car and the motors.

[heartless]

if the car was well cared for, has no rust, and is otherwise in good condition, it is worth putting another motor in it. Which way you go on that is entirely up to you.

 

I can not comment on the quality of the work from CCR, simply because I have never purchased one of thier motors. have never needed to (knock on wood)

What I can say is that they are highly regarded around here.

 

Factoring in the cost of a used JDM, a full timing belt kit (belt, pulleys, water pump, tensioner, oil seals, etc) thermostat, various other seals/gaskets, and the time it takes to install all of that in the JDM motor - I would guess it would end up being pretty close to a wash as far as cost goes - the CCR motor would be ready to drop in, no extra work necessary.

 

If it were me - given one of those 2 choices, I would probably go with the CCR motor, simply because there is no extra work/cost/time needed. Just my 0.02 cents worth...

 

There is no reason to suspect the tranny is going to "fail" just because of mileage - unless it was beat on. Especially if the majority of those miles were highway miles (and that kind of mileage on that new of a car I would suspect they are highway miles - ie: longer trips). Do what was suggested and get a new clutch & throw out bearing installed at the same time as the engine replacement and you should be fine.

[Flowmastered87GL]

I would agree with the above post... If the transmission has been shifting fine I would not have any reason to think it was going to fail.  Maybe give it a gear oil change when you do the engine, and do the clutch if its not next to new, but otherwise I don't see why a non-abused manual transmission would fail.

[ccrinc]

There's another point about JDM engines: not everything hooks up the way you expect it to.  The "plumbing" is different on them.  Not personally confirmed, but I've heard they can be a real PITA to make work.

 

The price for that engine includes shipping of the engine, plus return shipping of your core and the full gasket installation kit.  If you pick it up and return the core yourself, we deduct $250 from the price.  Also, there's a "courtesy" discount for USMB members (which my newish office helpers may not realize yet), but you need to identify yourself as such. 

 

If you get one from a salvage yard (unless you pull it yourself) you're still definitely looking at over $2000 IF you can find one that old.  And little or no warranty.  Plus you still would need to give it the TLC mentioned above.  We do bend over backward to stand behind our warranty, we use race bearings and turbo head gaskets because, well because they're just better.

 

As for the car itself: that's a pretty good year.  The newer ones are electronic nightmares.   My oldest granddaughter and grandson both drive '93 Imprezas.  Why? Because they're easy and simple to maintain and cheap to run.  The '02 is similar.  And, if you've looked at Craigslist lately, you know you can't buy a decent used Subaru for under $4,000 anywhere in this state. 

 

Gimme a call! (Well, not me...I've had 2 spine surgeries and I'm not in the office anymore, but Sarah or Cindy will be happy to help you out.  Just tell 'em Emily sent you!

[idosubaru]

It's hard to imagine a 340,000 mile car worth much more than the cheapest junk yard engine you can find, but over this way everything rusts and the bushing/boots suck after that much time and mileage.

 

Subaru manual transmissions...they can last and they can fail.  If you don't have issues now, change the oil, drive it lightly and you should be good to go.

[lstevens76]

Is the car worth it?  That depends on maintenance.  Your talking about an engine that has been replaced once and now has problems again, why?  Was it due to lack of proper care, or simple bad luck.  I'm putting it this way because there is more to maintaining a car than just the engine.

 

Has the service on the differentials been done properly.  Are the CV Axles (front and rear) in good shape, are the u-joints in good shape, how are the struts?  All these things matter when you are contemplating putting thousands into a car.

 

Personally I would either find a shop to properly repair the engine in the car or replace it with a CCR or other quality subaru rebuilt engine.  A junkyard engine or JDM engine is not going to guarantee an updated head gasket design which is the most common point of failure for these engines.  You don't want to be back in the same boat in another 150k miles.

 

That being said, my opinion comes down to how much work it needs.  This isn't like my car where I knew from the moment I bought it I would be doing everything myself and searching out things myself.  Your talking about buying parts and having a mechanic do the work.  For this you need to really go over that car and make sure nothing else is wrong.  

 

Example:

 

4 struts + install will be around $1,000.

 

New front CV Shafts would be around $150 to $200 a side using aftermarket axles, and $200 to $300 using OEM or OEM Rebuilt axles.

 

What I'm saying is go over that car and make sure you aren't dumping money into a money pit.

 

Now, if your willing to do the work yourself that changes everything.

[Bushwick]

If by a "JDM" engine you mean buying overseas and having shipped, you have ZERO recourse if it's junk. And unless you are searching for some rare optioned turbo engine they only offered in a few places, just buy locally. Plenty of rusted Subarus with strong engines that'll fit w/o issue.

 

As far as the mileage goes, if you don't see receipts for ball joints, inner/outer tie rods, axle shafts, wheel bearings, clutch, etc. those will ALL be potential issues that will either need looked at now or eventually.

 

I can get used ej22 & ej25 engines for around $140 locally, all day every day. A body with that many miles NOT getting a full restoration, would be better with a cheap used engine, and the money saved going into ALL the things that'll need fixing. If the trans has the full 340k miles on it, I strongly suggest getting a replacement to avoid issues down the road. Manual trans are typically neglected when it comes to fluid changes, so there's bound to be shavings in the oil. 

 

If you are looking for a daily driver, you should replace as much as possible at the start to avoid constant little repairs.

[lstevens76]

If by a "JDM" engine you mean buying overseas and having shipped, you have ZERO recourse if it's junk. And unless you are searching for some rare optioned turbo engine they only offered in a few places, just buy locally. Plenty of rusted Subarus with strong engines that'll fit w/o issue.

 

Lets start with this one.  You purchase a JDM engine from a local reseller and if you look around there are many with a minimum of a 6 month warranty.  I still wouldn't recommend this option unless he is replacing head gaskets, but lets keep the information to what people will find.

 

 

A body with that many miles NOT getting a full restoration, would be better with a cheap used engine, and the money saved going into ALL the things that'll need fixing. 

 

 

Your on the wrong coast.  He is in Colorado and those of us on the west coast don't suffer from all that horrendous salt poured on the roads in the east coast, etc...  Even at the mileage it is the body is probably in good shape being a Colorado car and not an Ohio car.

 

 

[Bushwick]

 

 

Lets start with this one.  You purchase a JDM engine from a local reseller and if you look around there are many with a minimum of a 6 month warranty.  I still wouldn't recommend this option unless he is replacing head gaskets, but lets keep the information to what people will find.

 

 

 

 

Your on the wrong coast.  He is in Colorado and those of us on the west coast don't suffer from all that horrendous salt poured on the roads in the east coast, etc...  Even at the mileage it is the body is probably in good shape being a Colorado car and not an Ohio car.

 

 

Um, yeah, thanks for singling my post out. But...

 

1. I've read more than one instance of somebody that purchased an engine from Japan, brought it over here, and it either had a thrown rod, main bearings were marred, it knocked, etc. I vividly remember a guy being upset because he had no recourse and he was like "What am I going to do, ship it back?". "You" might not like what I have to say, but it needs to be said.

 

2. 340k miles is a LOT. Those of us with higher mileage Subarus know our own cars in and out and stay on top of noises or strange issues. I never once even mentioned rust or environmental damage including rot. Every part I mentioned is universally limited-life and applies to a Texas car as much as a rust belt car. Wheel bearings only last so long, as do ball joints. If the body has 150k miles on replacement ball joints, that can be dangerous. He'll need to raise the front end so both wheels are off ground and at least check play to rule either out. Tie rods do NOT last forever either. And I forgot springs and struts need looked at. These are ALL issues that need careful inspection on high mileage cars.

 

3. Colorado gets snow as far as I'm aware, unless there's a cut-off point where snow doesn't fall. NE Ohio gets a ton more snow than southern Ohio. Even if he's not in a snow area, that doesn't mean the car never saw snow. For all you know the car spent the last 10 years in it. If it's seen snow, then brake lines might be an issue, some small sections of fuel line are metal and need looked at, etc.

 

Let's not clutter this person's thread with stupid banter because you got sore at my unbiased post that he MUST carefully inspect the vehicle before dropping $3500 on a sight-unseen engine before he's even ruled out what the body and drive-train might need. Anyone championing the idea to just drop an engine in and go has no place giving advice here. I'm not some blind "fan boy" that thinks his car his solid gold and emits cherry scented fumes with zero faults. Meaning I'm not going to sit here and lie to the guy that sticking a JDM engine in a very high mileage unknown-history vehicle is a good idea. He needs to understand what he's getting into. Hopefully the car is actually straight and hasn't been in any serious accidents either.

[lstevens76]

You said "body with that many miles". I've seen more than one beautiful body with little to no "body" problems but tons of other problems.

 

And if they purchased it from Japan and had it shipped that isn't a local reseller. JDM engines are commonly purchased from US resellers who do honor warranties and already have the engines in the US.

 

As for the rest of it, I didn't argue. As a matter of fact I said something along the same lines as you earlier on in this thread. Suspension, steering, brakes are all common problems with a vehicle that high of mileage.

 

That being said though if he does do this he should do the work himself. If the body is as nice as it appears to be in that picture I wouldn't even hesitate to do the work myself and have a nice well built car.

 

The way I look at it in doing the work myself is I can replace 90% of the parts with new and have basically a mechanically new car for a lot less than a new car would cost and I can get rid of most of the abuse or damage from previous owners that way without ever having to deal with long-term consequences of it.

 

I know I may he weird but a really nice body and a trashed drive train appeals to me. lol

[idosubaru]

lstevens comments seemed factual?  he just stated some facts right - no big deal - JDM's are available with warranty and colorado doesn't have rust issues.  both true?  In the end you're both right.

 

his point was about rust, not snow.  Colorado vehicles see snow - but not rust.

 

Subaru's out west still have the original exhaust, it's nuts driving around out there and seeing all the 1980's Subaru's still driving around.  My 2002 H6 replacement exhaust came from a parts car in Colorado - complete OEM Subaru exhaust.  My 1988 XT6 also has the original OEM exhaust still on i.

[Yotanut]

The car is extreamly nice. It has a couple of small door dings around the car, but no rust.The woman i got it from had it since it had 30,000 miles on it. She had just spent $400 the day it started knocking on genaral maintenance. Belts, oil change,ect. I would diffantly do the work myself, and understand that wear items wear out. I kinda liket the bug eye body style and realize I can by a running car for what I will spend to put the motor in. My thoughts are, it will be super dependable with the new motor and any car I buy in that price range will be unknown as far as how long it will last. Spread the rest of the wear items over the next year or so, or as needed and I have a dependable subie!