montana tom Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 2007 outback 2.5 sohc. Auto tranny. Starts up fine cold , revs up normally, will sit and idle or rev in the shop just fine. Start driving down the road and after a few miles you notice a lack of power, then it won't pull itself at all ... when you pull over it will idle at first but won't rev beyond 3000 rpm after a few minutes sitting it will only idle (poorly) instant stall if you try to try to give it any fuel at all ??? Feels like its running out of fuel , I don't have a pressure tester for fuel ( may be able to borrow one) but when I disconnect the main line I get pressure release and a steady flow of fuel with an open line. The only codes the obd2 is showing is misfire on cylinders 1,2,3...not 4 ? Let it sit all nite and it will start right up ??? Any ideas ??? Apparently this has been slowly getting worse over the last few months. I'm getting new ngk plugs and wires for it ,but I dont expect a cure from them. Could a fuel pump cause a drivability issues like this ? A coil ? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) could you do a vacuum test before and after it fails? maybe exhaust is getting blocked? also, try some carb cleaner or Ether Start in the intake when it's failing - if it tries to run, that would 'prove' fuel starvation I think? Edited August 14, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Do you have a code reader that does live data? This could be a sensor, such as the front 02 sensor, failing after warming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 I thought about plugged cat , could try disconnecting exhaust to see if that had any effect. Would it flow cold and then slowly close up as it heats up ? Yes my code reader does live data , nothing but cly. 1,2,3 misfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 some older soobs would have crank sensors flake-out at temp.... if it was fuel, why not cyl 4 misfire too? no oil on the plug boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Would hope & expect a crank sensor to throw a code, no oil on boots, and I agree about cly 4 ???? would think a plugged exhaust would misfire 4 also ?? Runs clean and smooth on all 4 when cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I thought about plugged cat , could try disconnecting exhaust to see if that had any effect. Would it flow cold and then slowly close up as it heats up ? Yes my code reader does live data , nothing but cly. 1,2,3 misfire. If it does live data are you reading the 02 Sensor information and the voltage specs? I.E. my '00 OBS has a bad rear 02 sensor I need to change. Problems are only intermittent but you can tell w/ live data as it's showing a voltage reading way out of spec (supposed to be .2v to .4v and it reads .7v to .9v at times). That's why I asked about live data. It isn't throwing a code, it's showing the problem in the live data readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) also, the 3K limit seems like 'limp' mode, but, no codes? could this car have had the ECU re-flashed? it's possible codes have been removed form the reportable list. I had to kill about 14 codes in my WRX relATED to my frozen-shut aircut valves. Intake runners (tumble generator valves) can stick and put the car into limp mode for instance - likely other stuff does as well. but, weird that there are no codes. just for S & G, try doing a code erase/ECU reset next time this happens. See if the car behaves better/differently. Edited August 14, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Its more severe than limp mode. It slowly gains 3ooo rpm only in park or neutral, if you were still in gear it would just power down and stall. It did have its ecu reset , by me. I tried disconnecting several sensors while it was barely running ,in the hope that it would go into a limp mode to get me home... did'nt work, but I sure had plenty of codes to go with the misfire 1-2-3... Clearing codes did not change anything , replacing the plugs , wires and air filter also did nothing. Currently too hot outside to work on it... Going to try disconnecting the exhaust tomorrow to see if that has any effect . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 You just said you had plenty of codes to go with the misfire 1-2-3, did you document them? List them here and let us know what they are. What codes have returned, if any, since you cleared them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 I didn't record those codes , and the only ones that came back were misfire 1&2 ,no # 3 this time. Had to work all weekend so I haven't looked at the car. Still going to try dropping the exhaust while it's acting up to see if it's a plugged exhaust or not . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 Problem fixed !! I was about to give up. Borrowed a fuel pressure tester and it had 52 lbs at idle , so no fuel pump problems . No water in the fuel. Was informed that it had a strong fuel smell from the exhaust when it was dying. The problem had progressed to the point that in the shop cold it would only rev up to 4000 rpm then start misfiring badly. Last resort, I dropped the exhaust free from the cylinder heads and attempted to start. Had to hold the throttle open to get it to fire... (very loud) after a few burps as the computer adjusted, suddenly it would rev to red line !!! Reattached exhaust and back to 4000 rpms ... yes ! went to the second catalytic pipe and disconnected it from the resonator and after getting engine to fire I discovered that it would only rev to 5000 rpms. Disconnect 2nd cat pipe from the first cat pipe and its back to revving to redline !!! $270.00 later with new gaskets and a new 2nd cat and pipe, car is fixed ! Revs up to red line & runs down the road strong ! All codes are gone and cruise control lite has quit flashing. After removing the bad pipe & tapping, it produced a pile of silver powder... no doubt the cheaper alternative to platinum. Rear resonator pipe and both rear mufflers are shot but at another $400.00 they can wait a few weeks.For now sister can hop in her subi and go... she is a happy camper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Something caused the cat to fail. Any damage to the outside of the housing? Is it getting poor fuel mileage? Spark plugs old? Air filter clogged? Check O2 sensor readings and fuel trims on the scanner while driving. Fuel trims more than +/-10% while cruising or at idle are indicators of an AF ratio problem and can cause damage to the cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 A cat should not cause the "RICH" smell, although it will hide a rich smell because that is what it is designed to, store all those extra emissions. I would agree with Fairtax that there is probably another issue that needs corrected as well. Keep watching for codes and check things because you don't want to blow up another cat or cause other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Thanks guys; I will continue to monitor her car . No damage to old cat, but this a new car to her so we don't know the maintenance history before she got it. So far its running great and have no doubt that I will hear all about it if it doesn't . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 A clogged cat is a damaged cat. It has caught so much emissions that it is full. You never gave the miles but my 2000 OBS still has the original cats at 200k. A catalytic converter on a properly maintained car should last 200k+ miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 LT gets cookies for calling the clogged exhaust. wow - thanks for following up - most "clogged cat" diagnosis are wrong - good job testing it first! Subaru converters are designed to last the life of the vehicles - I've even spoken to engineers that work in plants that make catalytic converters - but that's hardly needed with the decades of 200,000+ mile OEM installed converters that never have issues on well maintained/no issue Subarus. I would keep a close eye on the fuel mileage, performance, and engine codes and make sure you're not burning up the new cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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