5 speed conv on ea81 throw out help

[machthree2]

86 Brat with ea 81

Used an ea 82 flywheel ea 81 disc 82 pressure plate. When adjusting the clutch cable to fork, the fork touches the fingers but needs 20+ turns to get a clutch disengagement. I'm afraid I'll toast the throwout bearing. Used the stock Brat cable and pedals.

 

Any ideas ??

 

Tx 

[jono]

I am a little lost with your combination

 

you mention BRAT so i assume is 4WD box from an EA82

 

4WD EA81 flys and their pressure plates are made for a 23mm step

 

4WD EA82 flys and pressure plates are made for 21mm step

I have run the wrong stepped pressure plate on A81, so must have been a 21mm step PP, and was just getting away with gear changes - with 4 speed 4WD boxep

 

I thought the splines on a EA81 clutch disc and box input shaft were different to EA82, so in my mind cannot see how you made an EA81 disc in 200 or 225mm dia fit the EA82 5 speed 4WD box.

 

In RHD, can't see how a EA81 clutch cable will work - LHD may be lucky

 

Really need EA82 clutch pedal to get the 25mm pull at cable/fork point, EA81 pedal and EA82 cable and EA82 fork only get about 16mm may just work, may just not work

Edited August 17, 2015 by jono

[machthree2]

I am a little lost with your combination

 

you mention BRAT so i assume is 4WD box from an EA82

 

4WD EA81 flys and their pressure plates are made for a 23mm step

 

4WD EA82 flys and pressure plates are made for 21mm step

I have run the wrong stepped pressure plate on A81, so must have been a 21mm step PP, and was just getting away with gear changes - with 4 speed 4WD boxep

 

I thought the splines on a EA81 clutch disc and box input shaft were different to EA82, so in my mind cannot see how you made an EA81 disc in 200 or 225mm dia fit the EA82 5 speed 4WD box.

 

In RHD, can't see how a EA81 clutch cable will work - LHD may be lucky

 

Really need EA82 clutch pedal to get the 25mm pull at cable/fork point, EA81 pedal and EA82 cable and EA82 fork only get about 16mm may just work, may just not work

Thanks...  I may have put the ea82 clutch disk (or legacy) in. I made a 20 mm sleeve to extend the EA81 clutch cable and left the EA81 pedals.  That may explain the throw issue. I don't think I put the wrong pressure plate on as I did use an EA 82 flywheel. 

I'll swap out the pedals and cable with the ea82 on Wed. 

[skishop69]

Everything from the flywheel back should be EA82 except the cable and pedal box. As mentioned before, they do not need to be changed. I did mine about a year ago and have had no issues. Yes, the TO bearing is going to ride lightly in the PP when it is adjusted for proper engagement and release. I know some who have changed the box and cable, but it is not required.

[carfreak85]

Well, I'll chime in, since I just solved this problem on my own wagon.  The throw of the EA81 clutch pedal is not long enough to fully disengage the clutch.  You need to lengthen the lever arm at the end of the pedal to match the EA82 clutch pedal's length.

 

No, the EA82 pedal does not bolt to the EA81 pedal box.

 

Do a search for a thread by me and you will find pics and info.

[jono]

Hmm, I found RHD EA82 clutch pedal from non turbo slipped straight on the pedal axle. The box was modified to take EA82 cable mounting though.

 

My first conversion was using the 200mm dia clutches

 

It was EA81 , EA81 flywheel, EA81 pressure plate, Isuzu friction plate to match the 200 mm and 5 speed DR 4WD input shaft splines to the 0.2mm

 

EA82 clutch fork and throwout bearing - which I found some 200,000km later to be pushing on fingers about 10mm in from where it should - longer fingers on EA81 4WD clutch plate, smaller hole in middle - allowed EA81 clutch pedal and EA82 cable combo declutch, but only just, neded to hit the floor with back of pedal.

 

Then, last year, fitted EA82 in place, EA82 fly, EA82 4WD clutch pressure plate had all sorts of troubles until I worked out EA81 spec was 16mm pull at fork, EA82 is 25mm pull at fork. Fitting an EA82 clutch pedal did the job, still needed to alter the angle of the cable bolt to pedal box support as you may nee if you extend the EA81 pedal short lever end

Good luck....

[machthree2]

I think i can do the whole 82 pedal box ... will give it a shot later this week. I'll keep the post going. 

[carfreak85]

Hmm, I found RHD EA82 clutch pedal from non turbo slipped straight on the pedal axle. The box was modified to take EA82 cable mounting though.

 

His car is LHD...  Different parts, I remember your photos.  The LHD and RHD clutch pedals are different.

[machthree2]

OK here is some history and thanks to all comments. Ended up testing with gear motor and 5 speed on bench. The problem is the ea 82 flyweel is set back a bit. Also found that there are differences in Pressure plates. My buddy and I didn't like the look and slop of small bolts(ea81) in ea82 flywheel and grinding the block to fit. Sure the starter fits well. After the throw problems, we played with 9 different fly-plate combos. Turns out that the bigger teeth pressure plates (ea82 and or by manufacture have different finger actuation and throw?) We ended up going back to the ea81 flywheel (for bolt size) and found a big finger pressure plate with long actuation. I think it is a Loyale? The throw is good and throw out bearing is off the fingers, without modifying the clutch pedal. The problem is the starter now needs shims which seems dumb. I took the ea81 flywheel to shop today to shave 140 thousands off engine side. This should do the trick, and proper bolts will be used. By the way, this is the 8 inch smaller setup. Will probably work with 9 inch as well. Not sure why the difference in diameter clutches? Net Net: (8 inch dia / ea81 Fly, ea81 disc, ea82 pressure plate, ea82 throw out and fork, stock cable, stock pedals with stop removed) 

Will finish post in a week when final assembly is done.

[jono]

on the need to space the starter motor back .. I worked out my difference was 4mm, so made what essentially looks like is a big thermostat housing gasket out of 4 mm aluminium sheet. If you get an EA81 and EA82 flywheel in 4WD anyway, lay each crank side side on a bench, look at ring gear height off bench to see and understand why the spacer is needed, or you machine off the back of your flywheel - neat idea

 

you say teeth, but they are a bit like fingers , and how long they are and the diameter of the hole in the middle is sort of determined by the throw out bearing contact point. I used EA82 4WD fork and throw out bearing that contacted about 5 mm or more along the fingers, making for harder pedal to push.

 

Just watch your steps matching, not sure how you'd measure the pp step ?

 

Erp ? You wont be able to get an EA81 disc fit the EA82 4WD box input splines like you listed , surely ?

[machthree2]

Got the flywheel back and hopefully test this weekend. Goodguys is in town

 

Put the correct spline disc in as well. Will update. Installed 78 Hitachi with mech primary secondary and rebuild. 

Jetted for mille hi if anyone is intrested. 

 

Will test with Ea 81 and ea 82 PP . Will test for complete dissengage on driveshaft end and throw-out.

[iluvdrt]

FWIW I just did a 5 speed DR conversion on my Brat (82). I used a 82 flywheel, disc, and pressure plate with the 82 clutch fork and TO bearing. My pedal box and clutch cable are stock 81. I have no issues at all and my starter fit just fine.

 

I made very small bolt shims for the flywheel using some pipe that pressed into the flywheel and allowed the bolts to be a little more snug and just chopped off the bottom corners of the engine block to clear the flywheel. I used an etcher to re etch my timing marks onto the 82 flywheel.

 

Also a big factor in the install was the "jerry's kit". It made everything a bolt up and go affair other than having my driveshaft lengthened.

 

I have about 5,000 miles on it so far with no issues.

[machthree2]

iluvdrt

 

 

Good to here success stories.. Would you happen to have any of the spacer stock so i can copy.?

i did put the modified 81  flywheel in and it worked perfectly. $60 for machining though. another $35 for normal 12 thousands off plate surfaces.

The reason for the  driveshaft change was the 3 inch lift?

 

Now for the good stuff. Went to reassemble the new 81 fly disk and PP on my motor. Somehow while mocking up the Ea82 stuff  I toasted the thrust bearing and trashed the motor. Somehow before i started trimming the block for the ea82 fly, I think I sinched it up and rotated the engine enough to channel out the crank bearings? Sounds impossible but something trashed the bearings. Beware. The block needed the two angle trims + two small channels at bottom near the pan to clear the ridge on the 82 flywheel. I think when I impact wrenched the fly on, the crank got pulled a bit against the bearings, I did something to the crankshaft?

 

Thank the lord I had anther 81 block. 

Edited September 15, 2015 by machthree2

[carfreak85]

Why are you using an impact wrench to install bolts?  I doubt that moment of lapsed judgment killed your bearings (They were probably on their last legs anyway) but for god's sake, use common sense when reassembling things.