Long winded post about insurance and our old cars

[the sucker king]

This is about insurance and the things that I state here could very well be different in other states, we live in Colorado.  On June 4th of this year we had a crazy hail storm, worst storm I've ever seen first hand. Tornado touched down 10 miles away. It started with golf ball AND BIGGER sized hail for a while and after that we gat wave after wave of smaller hail, the storm lasted hours and pretty much everybody with homeowners insurance got a new roof. It even wrecked metal roofs. Our roof was all of 2 months old and our insurance company totalled it. It was a bad storm.

So anyway, we don't have a garage and have traditionally carried the bare minimum liability insurance as our cars are old and have no resale value and we like to think we are good drivers. our daily drivers are a 97 outback wagon and my awesome badass 80 hatch. We also have a 79 wagon not on  the road that just sits in our driveway with no insurance. pics of the daily drivers-

 

 

 

The Outback is a very common car in Colorado, I know the market well and feel comfortable that we could get $3500 for it.

The hatch is one of a kind and is worth 1 million dollars in my mind, but ONLY in my mind. I understand car value and I don't expect that this car is worth much.

 

So the hatch got beat to snot in the storm, It looked like somebody took a ball peen hammer to the hood and roof with big random shots to every other panel as well. but the hood looks REAL bad. litterally hundred of dents. Unfortunatly I had taken the roof rack off, it would have protected the roof.

The outback got some dents for sure, but didn't really look that bad. the wind fairing thing on the lip of the hood broke and a door handle as well, but really the paint was bad to begin with and the color of the car hides the dents and we would never try to fix this.

Neither car lost any glass or lenses, surprisingly.

and the 79 wagon looks fine. Was sitting right next to the others.

 

So I was super bummed by this whole thing wondering how much I am willing to pony up to make my hatch look good again when I had a vague memory, a couple years ago when I made the hatch look nice, I added additional insurance! I had to call my insurance company (progressive) to re-learn what I had  done, but basically I added comprehensive to both the hatch and the outback. In addition, two years ago, I had explained the situation with the hatch to an agent in an effort to better insure it, basically I said I have this old car with no resale value that I have made very nice and put a lot of time and money into it, and how could I possibly insure it for a more fair value. I mean if the book value is $800 and my deductable is $250, that wouldn't be right. The agent suggested I do a "stated value" where my premium is based on the $ amount I state, and could be potentially insured up to that amount. This turned out to be bad advice, it turned out that's not what a stated value policy is for.

but alas that was then this is now. I said okay 5k is what I will state this policy for as that's what I feel my car is worth. In reality, I really don't know, but it seemed like a good fair number at the time. I just didn't want to have it covered for the same amount as the typical 80 subaru with rust holes etc.

 

So I put in claims on both our cars. there is $3100 damge to the hatch and well over 4k to the outback. the adjuster said he really stopped looking at 4k because at that time it was obvious they would total the car.

So at this point I am hoping for $2900(ish) to fix the hatch. The adjuster seemed to think they would give me the full amount, she said it was rare for her to do the stated value claims, she didn't know that much about them. DShe was originally from Louisiana and assured me  that no one in louisiana would give my 5k for that car, but realized in Colorado we have that Subaru culture. She lived in Oregon now, and for what it's worth liked my car ok.

So then I come to find out that the stated value policy doesn't mean poop for me. It does not change the way they value a car, it only throttles back the amount they will pay up to. a more apropriate use for this type of policy would be this- Let's say I am Johnny RichGuy and I own 6 corvettes worth $60k each, the insurance on this is so high I figure I'll state a value of 25k on each knowing that I drive these cars so little and I have so many, 25k will get me close enough to whole if in the rare case something happens. I will be paying premiums based on a 25k car and the payout would be limited to 25k.

So basically the intent of this policy is opposite what the agent who sold it to me said.

but low and behold, there are no comparable 1980 subarus for them to base value on and for this car went to the NADA value "the best information availabe" and by the way , kelly blue book doesn't go back that far for these cars anymore, did not know that. I had looked up NADA value when this was going on, and was shocked that high retail for a 1980 subaru DL was $2600!! Last book value I had found many years ago was $1200 at most, so this was a nice surprise. So they ended up valuing my car at $2,900, which at first pissed me off because it was below damage (remember $3100?), but with the way it worked out, in Colorado your insurance company can total a car, and you don't need to carry a salvage title. plus when they total a car, they have to pay tax and regeristration value, so when it was all said and done, I got a check for $2600, so they were close enough to making me whole. I keep the car with a clean title.

 

The outback wagon was more curious- different adjuster -these adjusters come from all over the country following events that generate a lot of claims. Like i said, he stopped counting @ 4k damage. a given this car will be totalled- i don't have a problem with that at all. When this storm happened, I didn't think I was insured from any of this, it really almost went forgotton that i had added comprehensive. but they came back with a value of $2100 on this car. frustrating, they showed m their comparables, that ranged in value from $1900 to $5000 but averaged out at $2100 with their formula of adjustments on our car. I know I could get $3500 for the outback around here, "it's a good one" which I know they can't take into consideration. but no way was this car worth only $2100. So I gave them some documention of a low mileage engine installed and a comparible car in the area for sale for 4k and that lowered their valuation, but they honored their original valuation. So I got a check for $2100 when it was said and done for the outback, same deal, we keep the car with a clean title.

 

Overall this was frustrating in one way or another on both of the claims, but everyone I had to deal with was cool to deal with, even the progressive agent I spoke to on the phone who had to remind me "there is no need to be sarcastic", but in the end, we received $4,700 to repair 2 old subarus, only one of which will get any attention. So I guess I should not complain.

But it raised the question of how to better insure the old gems? The outback I think is what it is, a continually depreciating common relic (don't get me wrong I love that car, at least 5 cross country trips in that car, it's a gem), but the hatch,  I have heard of collectors car insurance, where you have the actual car apraised, but that sounds not only expensive, but impracticle for our cars.

Anyone have bright ideas on this, post it here. I guess what I would love is to find a way to insure my hatch for 5 k just because I say so, or I guess just be happy with the fact these cars are going up in value and are worth almost 3k. I guess it hardly matters, I probably wouldn't put collision on a car worth 5k either,

The real takeaway is comprehensive does cost squat, you should carry it, theft fire hail all that.I sure as hell am glad.

 

[rdweninger]

First off ....  Sorry about your beautiful Hatchie.    Hail storms suck. 

For others reading this - If you want to insure your classic Subaru Hatch for say ...  $5000, then you should buy a policy with a payout clause of Agreed Value of $5000.    Your premium will be more expense.

   If you have a Stated Value policy, the payout clause will say something like .... 'In the event of theft or total loss, Insurance Co will pay the Stated Value or the Actual Cash Value, whichever is less.   But remember, the insurance co decides what the actual cash value is (and it will always be low).   You can try to prove a higher cash value, but good luck... they have better attorneys than you do. 

So, Stated Value is mostly used if you want to pay the lowest premium possible... but will accept a lower payout if car is stolen or 'helled' on.

  But always carry comp.    It's cheap and covers fire, theft, hail, deer strikes and other 'Acts of God'.    If you have $5000 into your self titled 'classic' Soob, then buy an Agreed Value policy.

    I have heard about 'shrinking' the hail damage with dry ice or liquid nitrogen ... hoping the dents will 'pop' out.

  If that doesn't work, just modify the paint job to make the hail dents look like bullet holes.... then put some stickers in the window that say   "They lived"

[the sucker king]

rdweninger I talked to my insurance co about the agreed value policy, I have come full circle on this, I don't think it's worth paying for the apraisal that this would require and in the end I wouldn't put collision on a $5,000 car anyway. I didn't realize until this claim that the gap was closing on this vintage of Subaru. That they actually valued it at nearly 3k is alright by me. When I did the stated value based on bad advice, I was trying to better insure a car that I thought they would have totalled out after $1000 damage. but such is not the case.

And you are right, the insurance company will value the car how they see fit, and there isn't much you can do about it. In the end, they treated me better on my hatch than they did on our outback. Go figure.

When it comes down to it I got more than enough money to fix the hatch, and the outback really doesn't even look that bad anyway. I have heard about the dry ice thing, I might try it, but the plan is to replace the hood, I have a couple straight in my shed, fix whatever other dents I can and have the whole car painted, it will look tip top again.

[idosubaru]

Very cool that worked out.  And now you (and we) know a little bit more about how insurance works.

 

I'll tell the story but there is a specific point that might help some older subaru owners too.

 

Someone ran into my 1988 XT6 last year.  As you know, a more worthless car than a sweet hatch - particularly in the rust belt where 90's Subaru's are frowned upon - they get dated so much quicker because the cars disappear and perception goes with it (particularly oddball XT's).  I had the fortune that they were at fault, but I was just wanting my car fixed, no attorney, no other claims. 

 

I told the adjuster I had driven these for the past 20 years, had this one shipped from California to have a rust free car, done all the major maintenance things to make it a reliable daily driver and work car, custom differential, MWE axles, lift, new clutch, snow tires, fluids, belts, etc. And that it was much more valuable to me than to anyone else - I'd rather keep it and repair it and getting another XT up to this level would be quite a bit of effort.

The damage wasn't terrible and I told him I'd be fixing it and rather keep it without salvage and re-title, reinspection - which I've done before but didn't want to here, it wasn't really needed.

He added a bunch of stuff and quickly got to the totaling mark. Then he started asking me questions and....i forget the terms he used...but he added on all additional financial considerations that didn't effect the value that's assessed to declare it totaled.  Like a rental car (though I never got one) - and some kind of other terms that somehow involved the body/paint/valuation or something but didn't go into the value they use for totaling for some reason - I didn't quite understand it.  I just remember him pointing out and marking some things and saying - he could do this and that and it won't affect that first repair estimate that was just below the total value.

 

The point is - he had some flexibility to stop the estimate before totaling it and add some additional fat on top to help an oddball old car that doesn't have any value - except to me. 

Edited August 18, 2015 by grossgary

[Subarule]

I have comprehensive on my '86 wagon but I know that the adjusters would have no clue how to value it. You're right in that the KBB doesn't list cars that old, only NADA does and thankfully they are generous with their valuations. I wouldn't let my ins. co. get away with lowballing it below NADA value.

I want people to know , those who value their Subes, and keep them in good condition, that comprehensive insurance is worth the money spent. Also, keeping the car looking looking spiffy will help should you ever need to have an adjuster look at it. Perception is everything.

On the flip side, drastically altering the car, cutting, welding, lifting it 4', etc. will destroy any value it might have otherwise had. You can have an old Sube that's an investment for the future (possibly) or you can have a disposable toy.

 

 

 

 

[Nobility]

I have a question that is directly related to this topic. I recently bought a taxi fleet and it has only old cars that were produced before 2000. The insurance of all cars has expired and I want to take out a multi-insurance at generalliabilityinsure.com, but I would like to thin out how reliable this company is and if anyone worked with it? Also, I wanted to ask if I will get benefits for insurance of old cars for taxis? Somebody knows???

Edited February 25, 2020 by Nobility

[Davidson1987]

I know from my experience that owning an old car is way more expensive than buying a new one. And as you said, sometimes there's no reason for insurance because the car doesn't have resale value. Well, there are two sides of the coin, as you already understood and car insurance would have saved you some money after this storm. I got comprehensive insurance on my car after I read reviews and advice on https://www.moneyexpert.com/car-insurance/ and I plan on getting collision insurance too. Good luck with fixing the car by the way.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Davidson1987

[el_freddo]

24 minutes ago, Davidson1987 said:

I know from my experience that owning an old car is way more expensive than buying a new one.

That depends on how you look after them. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[GeneralDisorder]

13 hours ago, Davidson1987 said:

I know from my experience that owning an old car is way more expensive than buying a new one.

That depends on who you are - what your skill level is, and what your purposes are for the "old car"

Owning, driving, and wrenching on older cars, being part of my professional career, has not cost me a dime. It has made me a fortune. My "old cars" are like business cards. They are rolling billboards for what I do. 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

On 2/16/2020 at 7:29 PM, Subarule said:

You can have an old Sube that's an investment for the future (possibly) or you can have a disposable toy.

Very unlikely that an old Subaru is going to be an "investment". Even the most valuable old Subaru's - typically the pristine low mileage Brat's, etc - only fetch about $10k. Not very impressive in the scheme of automotive investments. I expect my 1984 GMC Jimmy (K5 Blazer) will be worth $25k+ within the next 10 years. Being I have $5k into it - that's likely a 500% ROI. An old Subaru is likely to have cost more than it's worth by several times over during it's lifetime. The net profit will be negative after you consider the purchase price and all repairs over it's lifetime. It will not be an investment at all. Especially the most common of Subaru's - the station wagon. They are not what people are looking for - sure some people are, and some have fond memories of their parents EA82 they grew up in, etc. But those people will be few and far between compared to more popular and memorable vehicles like sports cars, lifted trucks and SUV's (4x4's), etc. The relative numbers that are available (they are still common), and the lack of demand means there's a surplus of supply - driving down the values. And when people look into owning one they find they can't get parts and service for them - further reducing their viability for collecting - vehicles in this category aren't collected for their rarity or their performance, etc. They are only collected to be used. 

The types of vehicles that attain great value are pretty easy to recognize - they are rare, or sporty, or unique, or iconic. Trust me no one is really looking for a Chevy Citation, an 80's S10 truck, a Ford Granada, a Celebrity Station Wagon, or an endless number of other vehicles that are just forgotten history. Why? Because they weren't special. The Subaru EA82 station wagon is not special. And will never be worth anything with the exception of a handful still out there that are basically unused with just a handful of miles on them. Anything with more than 50k miles will be essentially worthless.   

GD

[Subarule]

Whatever you say.