Legacy clutch replacement problem(s)

[morkel]

96 Subie Legacy Brighton Wagon will not start after replacing clutch:

 

I lowered the transaxle and replaced clutch components including a new release bearing and sleeve from Napa (Luk). I did id not have have the flywheel turned. I removed the flywheel, replaced pilot bearing and installed the flywheel

 

First potential problem: When I placed the pressure plate over the disk, the two mating surfaces did not touch (Slight gap, I believe I had it lined up correctly). They only became flush after torquing the bolts down. This seemed strange to me (I've only replaced three other clutches on other vehicles, some luck involved), it felt like the pressure plate was immediately tight against the disk.

 

Second: I doubt I torqued bolts properly. I'm seeing 132-144 lbs for the pressure plate!  

 

I adjusted the cable. tried to start, engine half turned over, faint grunt, then click, click, click

 

Tried to start again, click, click, click

 

Battery at 12.4 v. Attached charger on boost (13.4 v), half turned over, faint grunt, then click, click, click

 

Removed charger, tried to start again, only dash lights no sound but fuel pump and injectors.

 

Check neutral switch continuity, seems to have it 

 

I was able to manually turn crankshaft with wrench, removed starter and it now does not spin, had it tested and it's okay.

 

Man oh man, what did I do?

Edited September 4, 2015 by morkel

[Fairtax4me]

potential problem: When I placed the pressure plate over the disk, the two mating surfaces did not touch (Slight gap, I believe I had it lined up correctly). They only became flush after torquing the bolts down. This seemed strange to me (I've only replaced three other clutches on other vehicles, some luck involved), it felt like the pressure plate was immediately tight against the disk.

Totally normal. Most clutches are that way.

 

Torque spec on the pressure plate bolts is 132-144 INCH lbs. 11-12 ft. lbs.

 

12.4v at the battery means its almost dead. Charge it overnight and try starting again.

 

Make sure the main ground cable is tight where it bolts to the bracket, and that the bracket is clean under the upper starter bolt.

Also double check that your battery terminals are clean and tight.

[morkel]

Thank you very much Sooberoo.  I'll recharge and check grounds and such. 

[morkel]

I did find a ground problem.  So the car starts. but it won't go into gear.  I believe I adjusted the cable and peddle height correctly.  The stroke is about 1-1/4 inches. It just won't go into gear, whether running or not. 

[Fairtax4me]

Will it go into gear with the engine off?

 

 

You say you had trouble with the clutch disc/pressure plate when you put that on. Do you mean you could see that the disc friction surface wasn't touching the flywheel? I may have read that wrong before, thinking you meant the pressure plate wasn't touching.

[morkel]

Thank you for your reply

 

Will not go into gear with engine on or off.

 

The disk seemed to fit correctly.  I believe you understood by attempt to describe my installment of the pressure plate.  When I installed the plate, I believed I had it line up correctly (the nubs and the bolt holes), but it did not flush with the flywheel until I bolted it down. Meaning, I was not able to push it flush and had to use the bolts to cinch the plate to the flywheel, because it seemed like the disk and the plate where touching tight 

[Fairtax4me]

Kinda sounding like the clutch disc is installed backwards.

 

The friction surface of the disc should sit flat against the flywheel, and the pressure plate should sit flat against the clutch disc. The outer ring of the pressure plate will not sit against the flywheel until the bolts are tightened down. Tightening the bolts pulls the plate down on the flywheel, which pre-loads the diaphragm spring, and that's what creates the clamp force of the plate.

 

If there was room between the friction disc and the flywheel surface, the disc is backwards. The center hub of the disc is jammed against the center of the flywheel, causing the input shaft of the transmission to be locked to the crankshaft of the engine.

 

Gonna have to take it apart and pull the clutch out again.

The disc will be warped from being clamped down backwards, so it will need to be replaced. Otherwise there's a good chance the center hub of the disc will break at some point in the future.

[morkel]

Thanks again, 

 

After your description of how the disk and pressure plate go together, I feel like I did that correctly. I'm here because I really don't want to take it apart again, but I will if necessary (my working conditions are abysmal).

 

I'm going to try and think of anything else I can to check when I get some time. I'm still stumped with it not going into gear with the engine on or off. The clutch play spec. is about .5 inch, I think I have that. The stroke I have set is a little more than the 1 inch spec. I'm thinking about double checking the pedal height.

 

I keep thinking it may be the release bearing and the new sleeve, but I can see them working through the lever opening, but only to a point. 

[Fairtax4me]

I don't remember the ratio for the release arm, but it's something like 3:1.

An inch of travel at the top gives you 1/3" at the bearing end. It really doesn't take much movement to fully release the clutch.

 

That said. IIRC, free play spec is only about 1/4". Release arm travel should be somewhere around 1-1/4" at the top. If your free play is too great the clutch may not fully release. Try adjusting so you have less than 1/4" of free play and see if the clutch releases.

 

These do have problems with the release fork. The fork wears at the pivot and will eventually crack. Then it doesn't release anymore. This is usually pretty obvious when looking at the fork. It's possible it cracked after you put everything back together, but unlikely.

[morkel]

I thought I would reply once more before taking this car apart again .

 

I tightened the cable fully with barley any play. Then had my wife operate the clutch while I looked down into the bell housing at the clutch. I could see the release arm moving the bearing and the fingers of the pressure plate compress.

 

I still can't engage the transmission into any gear, whether the car is running or not.  

[mcnea001]

Check to make sure the shift linkage is moving free underneath.   Weird it wont go into gear with the engine off. 

 

Make sure it is not hung up on something.   Good luck...don't lose hope ;-)

[morkel]

Thanks for the replys.

 

Luck and hope are all I have. Smarts, well that's a whole other issue.

 

This turned out be 100% operator error. I know, big surprise.

 

There was a lapse of time between my work sessions on this car. That did not help me. Lots of ins and outs.

 

First, I screwed up the grounding, but in the meantime decided to jump the neutral switch at the clutch pedal because I broke the wires off of where it goes into the transmission. The car still would not start.

 

Then I came back several days later to try again. Found my ground fault, started the car, but it would not go into gear.

 

Then I cam back several days later (you get the idea). Wrote here, scratched my head a lot, thought about what I did and how I got to this point. (I'm sure I got the car into gear right after I installed the clutch). Went under the car, looked at the linkage from the shift lever while my wife tried to get it in gear. Then I noticed the neutral switch going into the transmission (with no wires attached), is right in line with the linkage. I pulled that sucker out and it goes into gear. Big mixture of elation and utter frustration. But yes! I did not have to take this thing apart again! Not even close!

 

Now my son has his car back. Ta da, argh

Edited September 13, 2015 by morkel