jkhackney Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Hi, We have a Swiss Station 1987, EA82 with MPFI and 3 speed AT with ca. 130k km. I replaced the timing belts at 80k km, head gaskets and oil seals a couple years ago, radiator, alternator, some brake lines, brake discs and pads. Generally it's a great car, just getting rusty. It consumes oil at approximately 1L per four tanks of fuel. It has been pinging up steep hills for years; a Subaru garage I left it with said they couldn't reproduce a ping and so it's been left that way. It's recently developed a very slow idle in Drive when the choke turns off. So low, that it dies under load with low throttle, like when you try to reverse slowly. Today the engine suddenly cut out at 80 km/h while cruising on level ground. It cranks over strongly, but we couldn't start it again. I towed it home. I suspected the fuel pump. It makes a buzzing noise when the key is turned to "ACC", but I can't remember what it used to sound like when the car worked?! Apart from taking it out (looks like a rusty mess in there!), is there any way to test it from under the hood (bonnet for you UK readers)? Does the fuel just start flowing out of the tank when you take the pump off? Does anyone have any other suggestions for systematically testing systems to find our problem? Does the idle issue give a clue? I'm fine with old electromechanical cars, but don't have the tools or experience with automotive electronics or fuel injection. Thanks, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Fuel won't flow at the tank. Just disconnect the fuel line at the underhood filter. I would at least check the timing belts. An idler pulley could have failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Does it fire up with some starting fluid persuasion? Pull the fuel line right off the filter under the hood. Be careful as it's pressurized and will spray a little bit at first. Fuel pump shouldn't make any noise until the key is turned to the on position, at which point it primes the lines for about 1 second then goes quiet until it gets signal the motor is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) efi fuel pumps often present as a problem hard to start before they give up and die while driving. I have got my EA82 efi pump going by whacking it with a hammer pre start and during start with ign on and got a few more days weeks of life. I have also tried wiring dirctly to a sealed lead acid tiny 12V battery to test - sometimes just needed a kick but ended up replacing with aftermarket. These pumps can also deliver fuel giving impression they are ok until you test the pressure, may flow without restriction of injectors on end of fuel line. Injectors need the pressure to spray nice mist of fuel. General rule of thumb is using some starting assist stuff in a spray can, spray according to its safety instructions etc. If engine fires momentarily you get an idea the pump is shagged. Still no fire it could be spark along ignition path of things Unfortiunatly the horrid smelling stuff will just flow with gravity out the tanks 1/2" hose, so crimp it between tank and pump Edited September 19, 2015 by jono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Horrid smelling you say? Gosh, I love that smell. Not good for the brain though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 as close as i can get to describe the head spinning stuffs pong without swearing ! Comes from my days as a bowser boy, used leaded fuel to clean up the refillable oil bottles. And, yeah, apart from water content of most brains, the fats that make up for another large portion are disolved by fuel fumes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonist Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Do you know what colour the ECU is? gold or black case. It should be bolted to the bottom of the steering column. Try to connect a battery directly to the fuel pump (both power & earth side) to check the pump still works. The earlier black computers earth out the fuel pump via an internal circuit. It's well known for this circuit to fail. The fix is to connect the earth side of the fuel pump directly to the car body. The fuel pump relay for the positive side is still controlled by the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhackney Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Thanks, everyone. The car quit on the first day of our vacation and the next day we left (in the other car of course), ... we just got back! I detached the engine-side fuel hose at the pump and had my wife turn the key to ACC and got a quick bucket full of fuel. So the pump works. I followed the Haynes (and common sense) to check the spark: none at the plug, none at the lead, none at the coil. No voltage at the low-tension side of the coil, either. The coil resistances are OK. Haynes says I need a new ignition module/pickup coil combination device. It's the distributor pictured in illustration 10.8e, "Hitachi system turbocharged". Still, I'll check on the ECU color. It'll be good to know for the future! Where do I order an ignition module/pickup coil? Does anyone know the part number? I have a dealer here, but he's given me the incorrect parts sometimes, in particular the wrong distributor cap, which tells me he's not the best source for this particular need. Thanks, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhackney Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 OK, I guess it'll be easier to find a whole distributor than the ignition/pickup coil module. Mine is the Swiss Station 1987 MPFI non-turbo 4WD wagon with 3 speed Automatic and 99 horsepower. I have the factory manual for the US version from 1988. This lists a single the distributor for all models and it's the Hitachi D4P84-03. The picture looks just like mine. A scrapyard has a Hitachi D4P86-01A from a 1988 turbo sedan model with 120 horsepower. Any guess whether this will work? My engine uses the turbo-type intake manifold and Haynes indicates that the turbo/non-turbo MPFI's used the same distributor. (i.e. I usually end up ordering parts for the turbo model, though mine isn't turbo). I'd appreciate any help from this incredibly knowledgeable forum!? Thanks, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 You need voltage at the coil before worrying about anything else. Check the fuse,fusible link and ignition switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhackney Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Hi again, The coil voltage is 12V on both + and - (I had measured it incorrectly, across the coil instead of each pole independently to ground). I realized it isn't switching the - to ground through the distributor as it should. Finally I realized that "john in KY" had made an important point. I should check the belts and make sure the distributor is turning at all. Indeed the left (driver's side) driving belt is broken! The most obvious culprit, as it turns out! Hmm, 60,000 kilometers since I changed them. This will solve our problem for the time being ... after rolling underneath the past weekend, I think the rust will kill this car before the fuel pump or the distributor. Thanks everyone! Jeremy Edited October 5, 2015 by jkhackney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hmm, 60,000 kilometers since I changed them. Belt should have lasted much longer. Most probable reason it failed so soon is the idle bearing is failing. If this was my car, and I once owned 2 turbo wagons, I would replace the oil pump gasket and the camshaft seals while it was apart. The camshaft seal that often causes the oil leak is not the one that is visible behind the cam sprocket. Need to remove the sprocket and then that housing retained by 3 bolts. there you will find an O-ring. Change it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhackney Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks for that tip, KY john. My last broken belt was on a different Subaru and it happened 70,000 miles after replacement, i.e. replacement was already on my "TODO" list. To lose this one at 60k km surprised me. My last drivebelt kit came with an idler, (the lipped) camshaft seals, and the pulleys, all of which I replaced. The kits are hard to find, here. I've gotta go through a dealership or order from abroad. I'll see if my dealer can get me the O-rings, as well, and the oil pump seal kit. I replaced the oil seal fairly recently when I did the head gaskets but since I'll be in there why not. Cheers, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Did you put the timing belt covers back on? I find the belts last only about 60,000 km or so with the covers off. Covers on, they last 90,000 + and you get to change them before they die, no covers, and they break at much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhackney Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Hey, While cleaning up inside the belt covers to re-assemble, I noticed that the "oil" in the covers is actually coolant leaking out of the hole in the bottom of the water pump. Both Haynes and my factory manual say it's time to replace or overhaul the water pump, the latter as a last resort if a new pump can't be sourced. It seems plausible that the coolant caused the short life of the belt, doesn't it? (Makes me cringe that I went and bought the whole sh'bang and probably just needed belts and a pump!). Has anyone rebuilt a water pump? I have the instructions in the factory manual, but no part numbers. If I could get the parts cheaply, I'd rebuild the old one as a spare. Can anyone give me a tip on where to get a new pump and what to pay? The Swiss prices just about make me faint. Thanks, Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I've bought the water pumps from NAPA. Get the best quality level. I have thought about rebuilding them. Have to figure out where to get the seals. I'm pretty sure that the bearings are standard size. Don't know if the coolant really hurts the belts. But the leak will lead to hurting headgaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkhackney Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 I have a log book in the car for recording fuel, oil, coolant, mileage, and repairs/maintenance. I noticed that my wife (who uses the car 90% of the time) has logged that she's been filling coolant into the reservoir. So at least the level was good! Can't get to NAPA unfortunately. I since read some threads on the pumps and they say to buy the ones with cast iron impellers. Hmm, remanufactured pump for $22, shipping for $91 plus $18 import fees ... oof. -Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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