products to help with HLA ticking

[mikaleda]

I have had and regulary work on about five of these early 2.2s and every one has the notorious HLA tick especially when cold in the winter. Its just annoying sometimes when I'm at a customers place and I start my car and your car makes such a racket. I'm used to it, I just turn the radio up until it warms up enough to go away.

 

I just thought of making a topic on what kinds of additives you have used to get rid of HLA ticking. Also I won't use slick 50 in my subaru, it has it purpose in some applications mainly older motors with looser tolerances though.

Edited September 25, 2015 by mikaleda

[Crazyeights]

The only quick fix additive that has ever worked for me on a sticky HLA (besides fixing it properly) is Marvel Mystery Oil. That stuff is amazing.

 

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/

Edited September 25, 2015 by Crazyeights

[mikaleda]

I Might just do that, but I think I'll just buy some dexron 6 atf, its only about half the price and its basically the same thing

[idosubaru]

not additives but thoughts.....

 

change the oil frequently.  HLA's don't like getting dirty.

 

on older generation subarus the oil pump is often related to HLA noise - replacing the oil pump, even though it has no known issues - solves the problem most of the time.

with that in mind, i wonder if the loose backing plate screws (on I think ever EJ oil pump I've ever seen) would contribute to it.

[mikaleda]

not additives but thoughts.....

 

change the oil frequently. HLA's don't like getting dirty.

 

on older generation subarus the oil pump is often related to HLA noise - replacing the oil pump, even though it has no known issues - solves the problem most of the time.

with that in mind, i wonder if the loose backing plate screws (on I think ever EJ oil pump I've ever seen) would contribute to it.

I always with no exception changey oil before 3000 miles I always run wix oil filters. I think when I get around to doing my timing belt I'll check put my oil pump as well. My oil light always goes off fast so it must not be to bad yet.

[Fairtax4me]

Regular HLA noise will come and go. It usually goes with fresh oil.

If you have constant HLA noise, (all the time, regardless of oil condition, or temperature) the HLA is collapsed/stuck or the feed port in the rocker arm is clogged. If the whole bank (all HLAs on the same head) is making constant noise the feed port in the rocker shaft is clogged. This starves the rocker shaft of oil and can cause severe wear to the rocker arms and rocker shaft.

[mikaleda]

Mine has mind of its own. It seems worse when its cold. Sometimes I get a stubborn one that just goes on until I give the engine a few rpms

[Fairtax4me]

Try adding 1/2 quart of MMO or 1/2 can of Seafoam to the oil 100 miles or so before your next change.

[johnceggleston]

what oil are you using?

does it lose any in 3000 miles?

 

my 95 would start to chatter when the oil level was too low.

add oil and it would stop.

 

check the oil pump.

[mikaleda]

what oil are you using?

does it lose any in 3000 miles?

 

my 95 would start to chatter when the oil level was too low.

add oil and it would stop.

 

check the oil pump.

Just federated chepo oil 10w-30, I tried castrol and my oil consumption went way up. I loose about a quart in 3000, it just depends on how many people I pass lol

[Bushwick]

This was a big issue on my 95' ej22. I actually used it as a bargaining point when buying the car they were so noisy.

 

 

IIRC, almost all were collapsed or were collapsing. Driving the car made no difference. It had around 170k miles at the time. 

 

 

The "best" method is to actually pull them out. It's very easy. Then manually pump each lifter in fresh oil until ALL the black oil exits. I used a plastic cap from the oil bottle to hold the oil (enough oil to submerge it and prime fresh oil through it) and used synthetic oil. Once clean oil exits, you prime/bleed it and drop in fresh oil (I cut an oil bottle in half and filled 1/8 of the way up and would drop the lifters in after they were bled) then move on to the next one. I had quite a few that would NOT pump back up regardless of how much effort went into it. Ended up going to a yard and pulling a set off of another ej22 which only had really good condition ones that after pumping out the garbage black residue, were solid when primed, so used those. Think 2 of mine were used and the rest were from the donor.

 

Anyways, car has around 182k now and they've yet to make noise. If yours are THAT noisy (like mine were), you should consider pulling them, then try and manually prime them in fresh oil and see if they can be restored. If not, you'll need to replace them. To save the effort, go on Rock Auto (or similar) and just buy a full set. Also, it's worth mentioning that the rocker's oil feed can get sludged up. If that happens, I think it can restrict flow to the lifter directly, which is bad. The rocker assembly needs pulled anyways (talking very easy to do with these engines) to lift the lifters out. Just remember orientation on the rocker shaft and keep spring metal where it needs for reassembly. What I did was pour FRESH oil into the lifter cavity on the rocker. Then pushed the lifter in. Tolerances are fairly tight, so the oil poured in (talking like a couple teaspoons worth) will get FORCED out the rocker oil feed once you push the lifter in. Pushing the lifter in, actually acts like a plunger. Once FRESH oil (no black gunk swirling out) is being ejected through the rocker's oil feed hole, you can move on the next one.

 

This is one of those things you should just do right. Adding thinner oils or additives won't fix it permanently, especially if they most/all are collapsing despite being driven regularly. People that say an additive "cured" their lifters is a temporary "fix" and their lifters most likely weren't that bad, or they only had one or a couple being stubborn. Do NOT use sea foam. I know people "swear" by it, but you should NEVER add anything to the oil other than fresh oil. Plenty of horror stories out there from people ruining their engine with that junk. It ranks up there with old timers dumping saw dust and honey in to stop an oil leak and limit smoking long enough to sell it. Just do it it right and pull them. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Bushwick

[mikaleda]

A while back I ran a motor flush and it didn't seem to help, but as much as I change the oil in my car they seem better.

I know my moms old 90 that we had for 14 years always ticked early in the morning from 170k miles all the way till it died at 312k miles. I'm not to worried about it since they have never stayed ticking to long. I might just start substitute a half a quart of atf in when I do my oil changes and see if that helps flush some of the gunk out of the lifters.

[matt167]

you can cut motor oil up to 10% with kerosene. Run a thicker oil, cut it 5% or so, and run a 3k interval.. Before multi grade oils, it was common to do that and in many owner manuals to do so for winter driving.

[mikaleda]

 

you can cut motor oil up to 10% with kerosene. Run a thicker oil, cut it 5% or so, and run a 3k interval.. Before multi grade oils, it was common to do that and in many owner manuals to do so for winter driving.

I would be causious of pouring kerosen in my oil. As a gasoline engine runs the gas slowly seeps past the rings and starts to naruraly dilute the oil and at a certain point the oil becomes abrasive. I would be worried about running kerosen in my oil for a long period of time since it would kick start the dilution of the oil.

[matt167]

kerosene was used to dilute oil in colder temps..the motor flush products are generally just kerosene..

Edited September 28, 2015 by matt167

[Bushwick]

A while back I ran a motor flush and it didn't seem to help, but as much as I change the oil in my car they seem better.

I know my moms old 90 that we had for 14 years always ticked early in the morning from 170k miles all the way till it died at 312k miles. I'm not to worried about it since they have never stayed ticking to long. I might just start substitute a half a quart of atf in when I do my oil changes and see if that helps flush some of the gunk out of the lifters.

 

It takes about an hour to pull them and manually prime each. 

 

The point I was making is if the car is driven on a regular basis and they are noisy, some are most likely "bad" and no amount of cleaning will restore them. In that case, you should just replace them. I've heard of people using kerosene before, but unless you have say a Toyota engine with 1/2" of sludge in the head and it's an emergency point of total engine failure, it's NOT worth ruining bearings, rings, etc. to avoid an hour's worth of risk. If you truly respect your engine, pull yours and inspect. If they, after cleaning them by pumping in fresh oil they won't hold 100% after the air is bled out, you can still reassemble, use your old gaskets, order replacements and a set of valve cover gaskets, do the repair and they'll be so quiet you won't be embarrassed to the point you are turning the radio up..... 

[mikaleda]

It takes about an hour to pull them and manually prime each.

 

The point I was making is if the car is driven on a regular basis and they are noisy, some are most likely "bad" and no amount of cleaning will restore them. In that case, you should just replace them. I've heard of people using kerosene before, but unless you have say a Toyota engine with 1/2" of sludge in the head and it's an emergency point of total engine failure, it's NOT worth ruining bearings, rings, etc. to avoid an hour's worth of risk. If you truly respect your engine, pull yours and inspect. If they, after cleaning them by pumping in fresh oil they won't hold 100% after the air is bled out, you can still reassemble, use your old gaskets, order replacements and a set of valve cover gaskets, do the repair and they'll be so quiet you won't be embarrassed to the point you are turning the radio up.....

Mine only does it for a little while during first start up. I have another set of lifters off my old motor but I just don't feel like pulling everything apart for slight inconvenience. A slow process using atf or mmo in the oil is fine by me. I will have this car for years to come anyway. I have other issues that need more attention, like upgrading my brakes, fixing the small rust spots before they get worse, and the biggie fixing the interior

[mikaleda]

 

kerosene was used to dilute oil in colder temps..the motor flush products are generally just kerosene..

As a short term flush I could see it working okay, but the flushes I've seen are more like ATF or MMO than kerosene

[matt167]

at least the old gunk motor flush was\ is kero last I knew. Have not used it in at least 5 years.

[Bushwick]

I seem to remember that if you do/did a kerosene treatment, you were NOT supposed to place any type of load on the engine i.e. no driving, just idle it. But this was back when US cars were considered "tired" at 80k and 100k+ was ready to be junked. Either way, there's a bunch of risk involved any time you add something like that. Even after draining it, it's still dilute the next oil added as it's on all the bearings and coating the walls of everything. If you do have a bunch of sludge, it's always possible it'll loosen that up while still attached to a harder chunk, which like a clog in a drain will block oil passages. Just isn't worth the risk. I'd be extremely reluctant to buy a car that's had something like that added to it.

[johnceggleston]

just my opinion,

but if you are going to add ''stuff'' to your engine oil,

i would stick to known retail products,

and i would only do it for a very limited time.

there is too great a risk of screwing up your engine if you use some home made brew.

 

i am unwilling to risk my engine on something grand paw used to talk about,

that i think i remember correctly, that i hopefully use exactly right.

 

 a very wise man once told me ,

the best way to clean an engine is to change the oil very often,

every 1k miles.

slow but safe and sure.

 

for this particular problem,

removing the adjusters,

cleaning them and assessing them is the right way to go.

for a lessor problem, like chatter after an engine swap,

letting the engine run will usually loosen them up.

but if not, if the problem persists,

then do the R & R, and clean them.

replace as needed.

 

one tip i read, when re-installing them

have the pin-hole align with the oil supply galley in the rocker arm.

 

good luck.

Edited September 28, 2015 by johnceggleston

[johnceggleston]

there is one other cause of HLA chatter which should be mentioned.

if RVT sealant ''gooped'' into the oil pump the last time you had it off.

it is possible that it could flow with the oil up into the rocker assembly,

and limit oil flow to the HLAs.

 

it has happened before.

and it is not unusual.

but maybe not the first thing to look for

unless you recently serviced the oil pump,

or the chatter started right after you did.

Edited September 28, 2015 by johnceggleston

[mikaleda]

there is one other cause of HLA chatter which should be mentioned.

if RVT sealant ''gooped'' into the oil pump the last time you had it off.

it is possible that it could flow with the oil up into the rocker assembly,

and limit oil flow to the HLAs.

 

it has happened before.

and it is not unusual.

but maybe not the first thing to look for.

The only thing on an ej oil system I use rtv for is the oil pan. I've never messed with the oil pump on this motor, I'll try tightening the screws when I have the timing belt apart next

[Fairtax4me]

I used 1 qt of diesel and 4 qts of non-detergent 30 straight motor oil the flush the 305 in my Caprice years ago. Worked great!

 

Even washed all carbon out of the pistons and that's how I found out one piston had a hole in it!

 

Diesel and kerosene are old timer tricks to get sludge and tarnish out of the crankcase, but they knew better than to mix the thin stuff in with the detergent multi-viscosity oil. Mix it with a heavy weight oil and drive it easy for about 100 miles.

[mikaleda]

not additives but thoughts.....

 

change the oil frequently. HLA's don't like getting dirty.

 

This has seemed to work well on my car. I started changing my oil as soon as it started to darken About (2000 mi). I haven't heard a tick once and its been being started in -10 degree morning and it still sounded good an smooth right of the bat. Now I just need to figure out my oil consumption issue which seems to be getting worse.