Suspension swap, super rough ride

[nicholi2789]

Hey guys, got a 2004 WRX Wagon a while back. Recently I had a guy offer to trade his stock 2004 wrx sedan suspension (stock struts with H&R lowering Springs) straight across. So i did the swap. I wanted to lower it a bit anyways. I used 3/8ths saggy butt spacers in the rear. Anyways, the ride is rediculously rough. I mean, I expected a slightly rougher ride since I'm lower but not like this. Everyone I hit a Crack it's really really loud and rough. I torqued everything to spec too. My question is, would getting a new set of struts help partially solve this? This is my first suspension swap ever and don't know much about suspension mods. But it seems to me putting lowering Springs on stock suspension is a perfect recipe for a really rough ride.

I want to keep it lowered, I just can't handle this rough ride. I don't do much gravel or off road but I do alot of late night spirited road driving. I just wanted less body roll and more road hugging. Lol.

Anyways, I was thinking about a set of new KYB excel g/gr2 struts (high reviews among Subie owners) and new tophats. Do you think that would improve the ride with these Springs?

Worst case scenario I have to either buy Coilovers or go back to stock. I would prefer to stay lowered. I just know that there is no way all lowering spring setups ride this badly. It's super bouncy and if I hit a medium size Bump at high speed it's downright painful and loud.

Any advice guys?

Thanks.

[Fairtax4me]

New KYBs are always a good thing, but I don't think they'll help much in this case.

Springs have a larger effect on ride harshness than the struts will. Lowering springs are often substantially stiffer than stock springs because they need a higher spring rate (stiffer) in order to maintain the lower ride height without the car hitting the ground every time you sit down in it. Lowering springs also tend to be shorter, which decreases the preload on the springs at ride height. This allows the weight of the vehicle to bounce up completely off of the springs over larger bumps. This is what causes that bunny hop (where the whole car bounces about 6 times on every bump) that you see the Hondas do all the time, that looks just plain ridiculous.

Your car is doing that now.

 

There are springs out there that ride better. Do some searching on the various Impreza forums for opinions on better spring options.

[Bushwick]

Sounds like they are NOT variable rate springs but rather constant rate. Could even be cut factory springs which isn't good and what you see this kids doing to their Civics when they can't afford the real thing (basically what Fairtax was pointing out). If they have high quality aftermarket variable rate, they'd ride better.

 

Basically, variable rate are wound differently, at differing points of the spring. This allows the spring manufacturer to provide compromise of a rough-only ride vs. a floating cloud ride. Better springs I've seen typically have a few rows bundled real close together when compressed, with a wider stretch near an end, or a bunch of coils almost touching and a couple twists where they are gapped 2-3 apart. That gives a decent ride for normal daily driving and still allow it to corner great. Constant rate would be suited to a track only car where handling is the focus and the road's surface is perfect.

 

 

When I lowered my Saab, this was a big concern, as was how expensive some springs were, and being a Saab, the selection wasn't that great vs. what you could find for say a Civic or WRX. I went with B&G springs which were very similar to Vogtland and they are great. Car lowered about 1.5", and takes rough roads fairly well. I even used inexpensive Monroe struts front/back and you wouldn't even know it.

 

Anyways, if they ARE variable rate and you have money to burn, adjustable Koni struts would be the way to go as it'd let you soften their dampening. If they are constant rate, either live with it or install some springs that are known to still have a decent ride for daily driving. The B&G springs were around $207 for all 4, but I went through an online site that offered them after the Konis I originally wanted were discontinued and the site made an error, so the B&G were shipped free to make up for the mistake.

 

Eibach, Vogtland, B&G, etc. make good variable rate springs. If you go this route, talk to a sales rep and get specifics on how much of a final drop you'll experience, as well as how good of ride they offer. Can also google the springs you want and look across different platforms as sometimes they are more niche were other cars, and you'll see a ton of people commenting on them. For example, most Saab 9-3 guys get the Eibach, and Vogtland when they were available. No one was running H&R. But during research, I discovered H&R were very common with the BMW crowd, and people on those forums were giving them glowing reviews for the most part. Figuring that's a tougher crowd to please, I got them based on the research.

 

If you have the chance, try and ride in someone else's car with the springs you want or are interested in. That'll tell you more in the 1st 15 seconds than anyone can online. Keep in mind if your friend is running brand x in his Nissan, it may vary greatly for your Subaru, but if they are in the same family of spring, it should be similar. Car weight matters too. So if you have a 10 pound amp pushing a 65 pounds of 12" subs in a 75 pound ported box, that 150 extra pounds will greatly affect the way they handle and would probably call for a stiffer strut setting. Also, new springs will sit a little higher and will eventually settle, so whatever you might get, keep that in mind. 1.5" is a lot to drop in practice, so 1.2" to 1.5" (Eibach offer a 1.2" drop) would be a safe bet w/o giving up too much comfort. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Bushwick

[nicholi2789]

Thank you for all the advice. The springs are H&R 54457 Springs. I just dont feel like this ride is normal or else noone would ever Lower their car. I live in sort of a small remote area. I don't have many friends around here with lowered cars.

[Bushwick]

Those appear to be variable rate and for 04' to 07' Impreza. I have no experience with them, so can't say if the springs are indeed on the stiff side, or your expectations are too much. If your struts are OEM with 150K+ miles on them, that can have an effect on how well they handle, as does the amount of tire tread left AND the durometer of the rubber i.e. high speed tires with a near flat surface won't absorb a bump as nice as a touring style tire.

 

If the struts are old and original, installing new ones might help it. But if you are talking already rough roads, you'd want a softer spring most likely + new struts.

[Caboobaroo]

I would like to add, sedan struts are different then wagon struts. Putting sedan struts on a wagon creates positive camber in the rear and doesn't allow the front camber to be set where it should be. It also throws off steering axis inclination and included angle. So make sure you're getting struts that are appropriate for tour vehicle.

[KiwiGL]

Having been in a GC8 JDM imported WRX, on ultra-low variable-rate Kings springs, I have to say the ride was terrible even with the variable rate King springs... The problem is that when you lower a car by 30-40 mm you lose that much upstroke in the suspension travel, and a Subaru only has around 70 mm to start with. I know my Foz had about that!

Does it feel like you're constantly thumping the bump-stops, or if it's just really harsh?

[1 Lucky Texan]

I have Subaru SPT 'pinks' on my 06 WRX - and those are notably harsher than the stockers.

 

old struts might have less rebound damping, but their downstroke would also be looser, not harder than new. Also, don't some folks need to cut about a third of the bump-stop off? maybe that wasn't done....not sure about that though.

 

just depends on exactly what you are experiencing but, (other than correcting track/height issues mentioned above) i doubt new struts SOLELY will improve the problem and likely will make it slightly worse.

Edited October 2, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[nicholi2789]

I would like to add, sedan struts are different then wagon struts. Putting sedan struts on a wagon creates positive camber in the rear and doesn't allow the front camber to be set where it should be. It also throws off steering axis inclination and included angle. So make sure you're getting struts that are appropriate for tour vehicle.

Yes I know that sedan struts and Springs are slightly different I did the reading before doing it. Wagon Springs are slightly longer sedans (though H&R lists the same part number for both sedan and wagons) that's why I used the 3/8ths saggy butt spacers.

The only reason I even did this swap is because my suspension was stock with 150k miles on it, and it was a straight across trade. Free besides my labor in doing it. I wanted to lower my car anyways.

 

As for the camber up front. I also know that I lose about .5 of camber adjustment switching to sedan struts. So far everything seems very normal alignment wise. No noticeable pull either way, though I am watching for tire wear.

As far as hitting the bump stop goes, I'm not sure if that's happening. It doesn't seem like the strut is bottoming out or anything. Under normal conditions it's not so bad. I mean I definetely feel it when I hit a manhole cover, but it's not intolerable. What really concerns me, is when I hit any sizable Bump or crack in the road it's a loud BANG and it seems like there is no dampening in the suspension up front whatsoever. I realize lowered cars rider harsher than normal but this just doesn't seem right. It also has a little bit of bounce when driving down a less than perfectly smooth road.

What were you guys saying about trimming Bump stops? Do elaborate please.

Also, could old worn top hats add to the roughness? I accidentally snapped a bolt on my front passenger strut mount (didn't realize the torque was only 17 pounds, thought it was like 30) so I have to replace the top hat anyways and thought I'd just do both fronts.

Thanks

Edited October 3, 2015 by nicholi2789

[1 Lucky Texan]

cutting the bump stop is shown at about 4:25 here;

 

maybe not 'required' but I have read of it being done.

[Bushwick]

If it's bouncing and banging hard, that's a strut issue. Get a friend/family member to drive the car on a flat, normal road for a couple miles while you ride passenger in a second car, and watch the tires closely on your car. If the body is "bouncing" like you have egg-shaped tires, or the suspension is shaking violently, that's a strut issue. Normally it's more pronounced in the rear of a front-engine car as the weight in the rear is less. I've seen people doing 55 on the highway and their rear axle is bouncing like mad- makes me shake my head.

 

Also, keep in mind your factory struts have a 150k+ miles on them and their wear-in was around MUCH taller factory springs. Installing shorter springs to them, can cause them to leak at a higher rate as all of a sudden they are trying to work around rust corrosion that was never cleared from the housing before. Air bag suspensions are kinda the same way. Those will dry rot slightly over the years where the folds in the bag are. And if you drop them a 1.5", all of a sudden the dry rot is exposed and a leak that took a week to drop the bag is doing it in a day.

 

If the struts were low mileage, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But given the fact the car is bouncing and it can't dampen even slight bumps on manhole covers, they are beyond their useful limit. Ideally, you'd want to run something like adjustable Koni struts so you can fine-tune the harshness. I rolled the dice on my Saab and ran new Monroes that offered a rebate so I was all over that and figured if ride was harsher, I'd live with it. But it worked out near perfect. Then again, I knew Vogtlands were a little on the softer-ride side and had ridden in a car with them, so when the B&G springs came to attention and were advertised as being about the same, it was worth the gamble.

 

Adding new struts won't hurt anything, and in your case will make the car safer, especially if you are riding it hard which I suggest NOT doing until it's sorted. If the new struts don't tame the ride, then go with Eibach springs. Also, get the alignment done ASAP! Your tires will start cupping and wearing so quickly you'll most likely miss it until they are completely rounded on the inner edges.