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4EAT Swap Phase I vs Phase II


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So I'm looking to swap in a 4.44 ratio auto trans into my 1993 Subaru SVX. From what I've learned thus far, all legacy/outbacks/foresters from the 90's with a 2.5L engine have the 4.44 gear ratio transmission. It is also to my understanding that any of these transmissions from before 98 (and some 98's) are the Phase I varients that I need.

 

However, as I am shopping around for a donor tranny, I found one listed as from a 1999 Legacy with a 2.5L DOHC H4 and the transmission is labeled TZ102Z2DBA which I got the impression meant is a Phase I.

 

Here is the listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/98-99-Legacy-Automatic-Transmission-/330560452039?fits=Year%3A1998|Make%3ASubaru&hash=item4cf6f035c7&vxp=mtr

 

So I guess I'm just confused is this a Phase 1 Transmission because of the TZ102Z2 designation or is it Phase 2 because its a '99?

 

Thanks in advance for any input!

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the transmission is labeled TZ102Z2DBA which I got the impression meant is a Phase I.

this is a phase 1, 97 - 98 auto trans from an outback.

it is a 4.44 final drive trans.

 

BUT the svx is NOT a 4.44 final drive ratio car.

so be sure to get the rear diff as well.

 

but the trans electronics are a plug and play.

 

good luck.

Edited by johnceggleston
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So I take it this particular transmission was listed incorrectly?

 

I was going to purchase a trans with the rear diff as a set but that plan isnt looking too good now. So when I buy a rear diff seperately does it matter what phase it is? I imagine it would just need to have the 4.44 gears, right?

 

Thanks much for your help! :)

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A rear is a rear, so long as it fits. If the Phase II offers a higher torque rating, has a Subaru posi (anything that's NOT an open diff that locks the rear going in a straight line), etc. you'll probably want that. If you have the eg engine, it makes about 100hp more than the ej22. I'd strongly suggest adding a trans cooler, and putting fresh gear lube in whatever rear you get. If it is some sort of posi rear, make sure to run the correct fluid as posi units typically require a friction modifier (I know Ford's old 8.8 with their house brand posi did).

 

A trans cooler will help it last longer, especially with an engine putting out more tq.

 

If possible, you might be able to run the tq converter from a 1.8L-2.2L against the eg engine. This will allow it to stall slightly higher and hit a higher rpm when the car starts moving. Basically if it stalls at 800 rpm with the stock SVX converter, and the engine makes 55hp/60tq (just a guess), that's the power you are launching with. If the ej converter (designed to stall with less power) when mated to a more powerful engine stalls at 1k rpm and the engine is making 70hp/95tq, it'll accelerate quicker.

 

Torque converters have taken a back seat with much of today's crowd for some reason. But having a slightly higher stall will definitely launch it quicker w/o affecting daily driver status so long as there's a trans cooler.

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So I take it this particular transmission was listed incorrectly?

 

 

acyually,

it was listed correctly,

i typo-ed in my answer.

the TZ102ZDBA is a 98 - 99 outback auto trans.

(97 is TZ102Z2CBA) my mistake.

so again, swap away.

 

if you feel the need the confirm this info,

look up hte trans part number at http://opposedforces.com/parts

the trans ID# will be listed with the part number of the trans.

click on the part number and then the usage info

and it will list the cars and yeas of usage.

 

rumor has it that you need  to flush the svx  ''trans cooler lines '' before you do the swap.

part of the failure is ''crap'' clogging the filter. 

adding a trans fluid filter would not be a bad thing either.

 

in all the paper work i have seen,

the TZ102ZDBA is shown as 98 - 99 auto trans outrback.

but in 9 years, this is the first time i have ever heard pf any one with a 99 version.

almost ALL 99 auto trans are the phase 2  TZ1A2ZJEBA auto trans.

those are fairly common,

but will not swap into your car.

 

this outback is very unique.

they did not make many that got the phase 1 trans.

Edited by johnceggleston
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i've often wondered that too.....99 OBW's are so much like 98's in every way...it's hard to imagine the transmission not fitting.

 

I don't know that i'd want a 99 with their delayed forward engagement issues. not a huge deal but i'd just assume not start with the one model year with known issues of a transmission that's easy to find.

www.car-part.com

 

you can also swap the front diff onto your SVX transmission.

 

 If it is some sort of posi rear, make sure to run the correct fluid as posi units typically require a friction modifier (I know Ford's old 8.8 with their house brand posi did)..

 

EJ rear diffs are sealed VLSD units sitting inside the case, no special fluid or additives required, use your favorite flavor GL5 in the owners manual weights like an open EJ diff.

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Normally for the rear diff in a 4.44 svx swap, you would need to grind out some space in the housing of the donor rear and transfer the stock svx LSD carrier inside of it. However, I've found a JDM 4.44 rear diff from a '02-'05 WRX STi (R160) with 5 bolts on the side plates. Would I be able to use this instead of modifying an open diff?

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So I guess I'm just confused is this a Phase 1 Transmission because of the TZ102Z2 designation or is it Phase 2 because its a '99?

4EAT Phase 2 tranny has external transmission filter. The one listed in the eBay auction does not, so it's a Phase 1.

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EJ rear diffs are sealed VLSD units sitting inside the case, no special fluid or additives required, use your favorite flavor GL5 in the owners manual weights like an open EJ diff.

 

All EJ engines have the VLSD? 

 

The wiki was saying that in general, VLSD fail and essentially revert to an open diff. Can anyone confirm this with Subaru? Think it's help the topic starter too if he ends up getting a high mileage piece that doesn't work as intended. Granted having the FWD action will negate much of that, but only having a singular rear tire putting power down kinda stinks. 

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All EJ engines have the VLSD? 

No. I have 2 4.44 ratio R160 diffs from Lego OBs & only one has the VLSD inside.

The VLSD came out of an H6 engine OB, the open diff came out of an EJ H4 engine OB. Both were 4EAT trans of course.

Edited by czny
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No. I have 2 4.44 ratio R160 diffs from Lego OBs(98-99) & only one has the VLSD inside.

The VLSD came out of an H6 engine OB, the open diff came out of an EJ H4 engine OB. Both were 4EAT trans of course.

There were subaru OBs with an H6 before 2000?

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All EJ engines have the VLSD? 

 

The wiki was saying that in general, VLSD fail and essentially revert to an open diff. Can anyone confirm this with Subaru? Think it's help the topic starter too if he ends up getting a high mileage piece that doesn't work as intended. Granted having the FWD action will negate much of that, but only having a singular rear tire putting power down kinda stinks. 

 

No - definitely not all EJ's have VLSD. That's out of context, I was replying to your post regarding fluid. very limited (early 90's turbo legacy SS) and 2000+ models. 

 

Yes - they fail to an open rear diff which a few folks have said is common.

Edited by grossgary
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no.   no one said there were?

Stumbled on this pic of the VIN plate of the 4.44 VLSD donor. It was a wrecked 2000 OB with a EJ251 engine rather than the H6!

 

 

Perhaps there's some clue to this option on the VIN plate that would help the LSD hunters?

Edited by czny
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So I found out that both the LSD 4.44 diffs wouldn't have worked because the axles on the svx are unique to only the svx. So back to swapping in the LSD carrier from my car into a donor diff housing...

 

Would a 2003 Forester rear diff work as it is 4.44 but not sure if its R160 or something else?

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my research indicates that the H6 never had the 4.44 rear diff , 01 - 04.

they needed the 4.11 to help with the fuel economy,

plus, the h6 already had plenty of power.

no need to gear it down.

 

and to the best of my knowledge , it is the only outback auto trans that did not have the 4.44 ratio 96 - 04.

 

so i would double check before you assume the h6 diff is 4.44.

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So I found out that both the LSD 4.44 diffs wouldn't have worked because the axles on the svx are unique to only the svx. So back to swapping in the LSD carrier from my car into a donor diff housing...

 

Would a 2003 Forester rear diff work as it is 4.44 but not sure if its R160 or something else?

Could hybrid axles be built using OB inner cups & SVX axles to work with the OB 4.44 rear diff?

I'm asking this as a courtesy to the buyer of my 4.44 VLSD, who also has an SVX.

Edited by czny
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Could hybrid axles be built using OB inner cups & SVX axles to work with the OB 4.44 rear diff?

I'm asking this as a courtesy to the buyer of my 4.44 VLSD, who also has an SVX.

 

If the SVX used specific splines on the axles and this is interfering with rear-end swaps, why not just swap the rear hubs over and use all Legacy/Impreza? i.e. swap the rear, the axles, hub assembly, and brakes if needed? If it's possible, you'd be running a full Legacy or Impreza rear and parts would be more available. Between the Forester, Legacy, and Impreza, there's gotta be an option there.

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