GeneralDisorder Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Well - I thought the Brat had a bad Head Gasket, but now I'm not so sure. The engine runs fine - no evidence of white smoke, but I'm losing coolant, and the rate seems to be increasing. It's very hard to tell, but the oil might have a small quantity in it, but the most disturbing evidence is this: What could cause the oil+water to mix in such a way, and to collect on the underside of the top of the valve cover? (yes - it's so thick, it's defying gravity, and this was after sitting without running for over two weeks). The rocker arm assembly shows NO signs of this mixture - in fact I can't see any around the head at all - just on the inside of the valve cover. This is the drivers side, so the PCV valve connects to the valve cover, and that tube is also full of this stuff.... any ideas would be appreciated. I don't want to do a HG if I don't have to. The PCV valve is a BRAND NEW SOA part. As is the thermostat. She only overheats after the coolant level has dropped about a gallon, so the cooling system is working fine. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I vote for intake gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaru Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Rick, my hatch had the same symptoms, and it turned out to be a bad head gasket even though the engine ran fine. I was loosing coolant and I didn't have the white smoke either. I did a compression check and sure enough the gasket was toast. When I get back to Portland you can use my compression tester to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 Oh yeah - forgot to mention - New instake gaskets too. Just did those a few weeks ago. Same problems as before I did them. (I suspected a vacuum leak from one of them, so I did em to be sure - turned out to be something else). Also - there's no way I can see for intake gaskets to cause this - except for the carb base gasket...... I should check that out tho. I've had that carb on and off so many damn times it's certainly possible.... but the thing has had this problem since before I started messing with the carb. Yeah - I might just go buy a damn compression guage. I need one anyway. hehe Shadow - you read my mine on that too. I can't see real good, but feeling around I didn't see anything that looked "leaky" in the freeze plug department. Might have to take the head off after all if that's the case. Just in case, I've already ordered a Fel-Pro HG kit. That will cover me for gaskets in this job. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWX Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I've heard bad things about the Fel-pro head gaskets for soob engines, I've never used them just letting you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 Well - the last Fel-Pro kit I saw was last time I was at Qman's place.... looked good, and I think that's what he's used on his EA81's..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 A friend of mine had similar symptoms with his 84 hatch. It turned out that he had a crack in the block; in one of the water jackets that run next to a cylinder sleeve. The sleeve also rotated about 30 degrees and chewed-up the piston skirt. I hope your problem isn't as terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 try the fel-pro perma torque gaskets clean up mess really good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 30, 2004 Author Share Posted May 30, 2004 try the fel-pro perma torque gaskets Yep - that's what I ordered.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Carb Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 I Still think it's a soft plug, I just pulled apart a moter at austin's that had water mixing with oil like that, turnes out, a soft plug in each head completly poped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 So far I've removed the drivers side head, and no evidence of leakage was found. I suspect the passenger side head due to the direction of flow of the PCV system.... it's sucking the water as vapor (small leak I think) through the crankcase, and up into the valve breather tube. Some of the vapor is condensing on the top of the valve cover and creating the nasty snot you see in the picture. At least that is my current hypothesis. Removal of the passenger side head will determine where I go next with my issues. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill90Loyale Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 "Also - there's no way I can see for intake gaskets to cause this - except for the carb base gasket...... I should check that out tho. I've had that carb on and off so many damn times it's certainly possible.... but the thing has had this problem since before I started messing with the carb." General- If, as we hope, its not the HG or a related major problem, I'd hone in on the "carb base gasket" that you refer to. When I had an oil/water mixture issue (emulsified crap on dipstick) in my Loyale, it was a bad throttle body gasket. Fixed the problem. Good luck. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 I'm tempted to shut that stupid carb base coolant passage off once and for all with some JB weld.... and I may do that at some point. Right now I've got both heads almost off (drivers is off, passenger side is nearly there), and the gaskets are comming in a few days. I'm actually glad I'm doing this, as 20 years and 130k miles has taken it's toll on all the bolts and studs in the engine, and they are *just* getting to that point where it's dicey if they are comming out in one peice or not. This way I can lube everything up with anti-seize and not have to worry abour breaking them off next time I need to work on it. The passenger side head nearly didn't come off at all - the center stud I had to actually remove using two nuts synched down together as it's stuck in the head (but oddly, still turns) with carbon and rust built up. I'm hoping that this is because of a partially blown HG and my problems will be solved. The drivers side came off easily, and no evidence of leakage was found there. Maybe I'll never know where the leak is comming from, but I figure if I throw enough gaskets at it, I'll eventually come out on top. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 Well - it seems that it was the carb base gasket all along. So I pulled the heads and put them back for almost no reason at all. Although I did find a slight combustion leak between cylinders 1 and 3, and the previously mentioned bolt issues got corrected and anti-seized durring the process. And of course the heads got milled so my compression increased, and the warpage is gone.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Rick, I had a similar problem with our Brat. Loosing coolent consistently and increasing in amount until we were at a gallon a week (and my wife was only driving 3 miles round trip per day!). Finally, it gave up and my wife had to nurse it home. I let it sit for a week and then checked the coolent (none) and oil--choclate milk shake. Engine is history now; qman installed a fine rebuilt engine. He still has the old engine (he's welcome to it since I really think it's toast); however, I may have to go back and dispose of it since it's not fair to him to have to deal with my junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 15, 2004 Author Share Posted June 15, 2004 Sorry to hear of the demise of your engine Ed - I wonder if it could have been averted if only the coolant had not escaped. I must say tho that the EA81 in my Brat took a lot of punishment - I ran it with nearly no coolant at one point and the guage rose to the bottom of the red. The HG's did not blow, but it seemed to have warped the heads a good deal. At least having them milled was an upgrade of sorts as it increased my compression to 9.1 The engine is now running cool like it should, and no coolant has gone missing since I did the carb base gasket. What had happened is I had pulled the carb off, and it came away cleanly from the base gasket on the manifold. I neglected to use a new gasket against the manifold because the old one seemed in such good shape. It was, however, leaking on the underside of the gasket. I took me at least an hour with a razor blade and some sandpaper to get the 20 year old gasket loose from the manifold. I used new gaskets both above and below the plastic spacer, wire wheeled the base of the carb, and used gaskachinch on every mating surface and gasket - worked great, and hopefully when I need to pull the carb next time the gaskachinch will allow me to reuse the gaskets. If Ken doesn't want that engine, and you don't either, drop it at Rob's and I'll take it when I pick up the engine he has for me. I may have a use for it, and I do have an extra set of heads here.... Fel-Pro HG's are only $14 each. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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