overkill Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Hello! My name is Gerry, I'm new here and a friend suggested this as the place to go for questions like mine. I have a 2009 wrx premium hatchback that I bought brand new. I live in denver so I wanted a car that was good in snow and would have no problems passing people on the way up the mountain passes. I have never modded my car and I don't race it. Part of why I picked a Subaru is because they are supposed to last forever and be very reliable. I'd love to hit 150k-200k in mine. After 6 years, my car has 60k miles on it. I made a decision with this car to just find a subaru mechanic that i trust and let them do all the maintenance so that the car will last as long as possible and be in the best shape possible. So here is the problem. My car has been pretty low maintenance for the past 6 years. Then suddenly a couple of months ago, it needed new brakes, a new clutch and new suspension. Like I said I don't race the car. When it was new I took it on some dirt roads with washboards, maybe that jacked the suspension. My garage was surprised that the car needed that stuff so soon. To make a long story short, now the car needs to have the turbo rebuilt. The garage says that there is a 50/50 chance that when they drop the oil pan they will find metal and will need to rebuild the engine. They say that subarus often need a lot of work around 60k miles, but then they are good until 150-200k. They said that most subarus will need head gaskets replaced at some point but for my car the big repair is the turbo and most wrx's will need it, and then i shouldn't have any more big repairs. What do you think? Why is the best car I've ever owned falling apart at 60k? Is this really common for Subarus? Do I need a new mechanic? Thanks, Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Do you do a lot of "stop and go" driving? I would expect the clutch last over 100,000 miles, but commuting in "stop and go" traffic could account for the worn out clutch, brakes, and suspension. If you want a car to run for as long, and as cheaply, as possible do not buy a turbo. A turbo is just one more thing that can break on a car. Also, you need more expensive hi-test gas to run a turbo. I hope that you were aware that turbo has to be "simmered" after using it. Edited November 11, 2015 by The Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overkill Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do you do a lot of "stop and go" driving? I would expect the clutch last over 100,000 miles, but commuting in "stop and go" traffic could account for the worn out clutch, brakes, and suspension. If you want a car to run for as long, and as cheaply, as possible do not buy a turbo. A turbo is just one more thing that can break on a car. Also, you need more expensive hi-test gas to run a turbo. I hope that you were aware that turbo has to be "simmered" after using it. I'd say about half the miles are from stop and go driving. i put in the highest octane gas i can. i just heard about the simmering 30 minutes ago from the other mechanic i called for a second opinion. can you please tell me more? whatever it is, i haven't been doing it :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Turbos are finicky. You really have to do very frequent oil changes with full synthetic oil, and there needs to be special attention paid to how the car is driven to get the most life out of a turbo. What suspension parts were replaced? Struts on those commonly fail at about 60k, the design of those on the WRX is more performance oriented which causes them to wear faster. Clutch is all in your driving style. Some people are rough on clutches and only get 15-20k miles. Other people can make a clutch last the life of the car. Here again, this is a performance oriented car, which will cause the clutch to wear faster. I would expect around 100k from a clutch on one of those if its VERY carefully driven, or only sees highway miles. In town in stop-go traffic, clutches wont last nearly as long. Head gaskets are not a concern on the turbo engines because the gasket design in much better. There are quite a few good Subaru mechanics in Denver. Start a post asking or recommendations for another shop. It doesn't sound to me that your current shop knows Subaru's very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 clutches and brakes are wear items all cars need occasionally - you can't lay that on Subaru (now, maybe the dealership/mechanic sold you more parts than you needed, that has happened) it does kinda seem like Subaru suspension (well, struts anyway) is not extremely long-lasting, but it may depend a lot on use and climate. I could certainly understand being upset about early turbo failure - one of the reasons I run synthetic in my 06 WRX and change it often, is to do the most I can to hold off that expense. Too bad yours failed so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 May I ask what shop you're using? Just curious. Some are great, some not so much. Why do they think you need a turbocharger? Lack oil or cooling is usually what does those in. (If you do, I can recommend an excellent co. to get one which will save you tons of money for an outstanding product.) Emily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) RE: the 'simmering' for the turbo. It is the process of letting the car run w/out the turbo running any boost, either while driving conservatively or actually stopping the car and letting it idle for 5-10 mins b4 turning the car off. This is also known as a 'cool down' and they sell turbo timers to helps w/this. Subarus do NOT need this and if you find it in the Owner's Manual please let me know....as it wasn't listed in my '02 WRX or '04 XT (similar engine to your '09) manuals. The Subarus have a 'convection' setup w/the cooling system, which causes water to cycle thru the turbo after it's turned off. Read all about it HERE. Subaru turbos (since early '90's @ least) are oil and water cooled so they are not over-stressed in regular driving. If you're on the track or daily auto-crossing it, then it probably needs to be treated differently....but your post leads me to believe it is not. In 2008>>2009 the WRX changed to a IHI VF52 turbo, and they may not be as well-built as the former Mitsubishi TD04 used in early models. I know the VF40/VF46 used in the 2005-2009 Legacy GT/Outback XT fails early....based on what I've read online. RE: Longevity....sell it and get a different car....yeah, I'm a blasphemer, but the WRX is a high-maintenance car - @ least compared to any non-turbo / NA car. The 3.0/3.6 H-6 engine is a good compromise, albeit you'll have to move up to the larger Legacy or Outback platform. It has similar power and MPG, w/out the EJ255/7 ringland, bottom-end, turbo failure and eventual head gasket issues likely to occur on the WRX. And no offense? But maybe you 'drive it hard and put it away wet'...either unknowingly or w/out wanting to admit. I'd take a hard look @ your driving style and see if there's any modifications there that need to be done. There are many drivers that ride the clutch and the brakes, which leads to premature wear. TD Edited November 12, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overkill Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Thank you all for your responses! For simplicity I will try to respond all in this one post. I am currently using synthetic oil and changing it every 5000 miles. The suspension parts that were replaced were struts. Besides simmering, I would love any advice on driving to maximize the life of the turbo. Part of this all is my ignorance in knowing how longs the various parts last in a car. I guess I assumed that if treated well the car would make it to six digit miles just doing the recommended maintenance. The shop seemed surprised that the struts and clutch needed to be replaced at 60k. I feel a lot better knowing that at least for the struts thats not actually that out of line. As for the clutch, I accept that it could be my driving style although I try to be careful, not ride it, etc. The method of failure was that the clutch became harder and harder to press in. The shop said that something was starting to seize on it and that it was fairly common due to the way subaru designed it, and that the replacement wouldn't have that vulnerability. The shop that I'm using is Community Auto. I used to work with the brother of the proprietor and i think they are both subie heads who love to wrench on them. I've never had a reason to doubt his skill or honesty. I have also just received some glowing recommendations for S-Wings and for Buddy at "A Mobile Mechanics" in Golden who is apparently also called the subie whisperer. A guy at S-Wings is putting together a rough estimate for me to compare to what Community Auto gave me. The reason that the shop thinks I need a turbo is because it is making a rattling noise whenever i give it some gas. Emily, I'd love any recommendations you have for me. TD, I'm totally open to driving it hard without knowing it. Basically, i don't burn out or race or that sort of stuff and i generally peg the cruise control at 10 over and leave it there. but that aside, i love accelerating! getting on the highway and getting up to 75 or 80 fast is a blast! We have mountains around here that in my old 89 Jeep 6 cyl I had to put into 3rd gear to get over 55mph. In the wrx i just leave it in 5th and leave the cruise on and blow by everyone else. Before this I had my dads old saab 900 turbo and that is the car that convinced me that the ultimate mountain car is a turbocharged 4, which is why i got the wrx. But when I'm going up the mountains in 5th its the turbo thats making it possible. Maybe that is really hard on the turbo? What do you mean by putting it away wet? Maybe I'm doing that. Usually when I get where I'm going I have 5-10 min of going 35mph on city streets before I shut down. I've never simmered though. This is the best car I've ever owned and I'm OK with more maintenance if I know what to expect. I was just very surprised to have the car work flawlessly for 6 years and then suddenly get hit with 10k in repairs over a 3 month period. If I have to expect to spend that again in 5 or 6 years then yeah, I will sell this car. I have no idea if I need to expect to replace the transmission or anything else over the life of this wrx. Thank you all again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Turbos should last 150k-200k miles IF you drive the car normally and change oil at normal intervals. When turbos do let go, it's typically a worn thrust collar that wears and lets the shaft move. This can be followed with turbo bearing failure. By the time that occurs, you'll be seeing a giant plume of coolant smoke out the tail pipe. If the impeller isn't touching the wall of compressor housing and lateral loads are minimal, it's probably not bad. To be honest, it sounds like your mechanic is overly zealous with hitting you for expensive repairs you probably don't need. Brakes + mountains = wear. Riding the clutch or improper clutch control = wear Struts fail. Take it to a dealership and ask them to just do an inspection. Make NO mention of anything other mechanics stated. Just ask for them to look it over. If you must, lie and say you are selling it, trading it in, gifting to a child, etc. I think the response you'll get will be most likely honest from them vs. you saying "I think turbo's bad" then they try and hit you with a turbo repair. Places with quotas or unscrupulous workers can and will do needless repairs to make $$$$ Edited November 14, 2015 by Bushwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtwinjunkie Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) RE: the 'simmering' for the turbo. It is the process of letting the car run w/out the turbo running any boost, either while driving conservatively or actually stopping the car and letting it idle for 5-10 mins b4 turning the car off. This is also known as a 'cool down' and they sell turbo timers to helps w/this. Subarus do NOT need this and if you find it in the Owner's Manual please let me know....as it wasn't listed in my '02 WRX or '04 XT (similar engine to your '09) manuals. The Subarus have a 'convection' setup w/the cooling system, which causes water to cycle thru the turbo after it's turned off. Read all about it HERE. Subaru turbos (since early '90's @ least) are oil and water cooled so they are not over-stressed in regular driving. If you're on the track or daily auto-crossing it, then it probably needs to be treated differently....but your post leads me to believe it is not. In 2008>>2009 the WRX changed to a IHI VF52 turbo, and they may not be as well-built as the former Mitsubishi TD04 used in early models. I know the VF40/VF46 used in the 2005-2009 Legacy GT/Outback XT fails early....based on what I've read online. RE: Longevity....sell it and get a different car....yeah, I'm a blasphemer, but the WRX is a high-maintenance car - @ least compared to any non-turbo / NA car. The 3.0/3.6 H-6 engine is a good compromise, albeit you'll have to move up to the larger Legacy or Outback platform. It has similar power and MPG, w/out the EJ255/7 ringland, bottom-end, turbo failure and eventual head gasket issues likely to occur on the WRX. And no offense? But maybe you 'drive it hard and put it away wet'...either unknowingly or w/out wanting to admit. I'd take a hard look @ your driving style and see if there's any modifications there that need to be done. There are many drivers that ride the clutch and the brakes, which leads to premature wear. TD would you be able to elaborate on how the wrx is a high maintenance car? I had an audi a4 before my wrx.... With the cam follower issues, and all the recommended service... that was a high maintenance car. edit.. Having just purchased mine with no experience about these I would truly like to know (for my own knowledge, so I can know what to look forward to) Edited November 15, 2015 by vtwinjunkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 would you be able to elaborate on how the wrx is a high maintenance car? I had an audi a4 before my wrx.... With the cam follower issues, and all the recommended service... that was a high maintenance car. edit.. Having just purchased mine with no experience about these I would truly like to know (for my own knowledge, so I can know what to look forward to) They aren't high maintenance other than regular wear items. His car is 6 years old, so it's feasible the struts are leaking. Clutches can go 200k miles in some cars, but if you are constantly riding the clutch pedal (even resting your foot on it), dumping the clutch, or partially holding the pedal down while going into 2nd (I've heard quite a few cars pass me over the years where the driver was doing this shifting into 2nd while accelerating), etc. etc. will wear a clutch out in no time, but chances are the mechanic is finding phantoms for $$$. His rattling noise is probably a heat shield as turbo's really don't rattle. They either whine, howl, or loose boost. Only thing you HAVE to be religious with is the timing belt. But unlike your Audi where the entire front of the car and a motor mount (if a 4cyl) needs removed to get at it, Subaru engines you just unbolt the timing cover plus removes fans for extra wrenching room. It's recommended to replace idlers + tensioner, though unsure if that's 100% necessary at 60k miles or not. Regardless, the belt + pulleys are not expensive. If you run full synthetic (this should be a must on turbo'd engines as the oil is subjected to more heat and breaks down quicker) oil and aren't racing the car, the turbo should last quite a while. On semis, turbos can go 500k+ miles and are hitting 25-30+ psi constantly, though those engines rarely go past 3k rpms. In a car, if you keep RPM sane, it can last longer, though it greatly depends on how rugged the turbo is to begin with. But even weak thrust collar units like journal bearing GT2554 Garretts can hit 170k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overkill Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Thank you! The clutch is feasible. As most folks in Colorado can attest, the drive back from the mountains in traffic can be brutal. I'd say 3 times in the life of the car I have been stuck in 4-8 hours of traffic, and for maybe 2 of those hours I had to ride the clutch. The traffic was not even going fast enough for first gear. I ended up just stopping until I had 30 or 40 feet ahead of me and then going. When you talk about early clutch wear, I think about those times. The turbo is the really confusing part. This morning the car is being towed to S Wings here in Denver. I will post more when they get a look at the car. Out of curiosity, the first garage wanted to rebuild the turbo at a cost of $1800. The second garage said that if the turbo is bad they will just replace it, either with a stock unit or an aftermarket unit. Why would one rebuild vs replace? Is one cheaper vs a better longer lasting repair? thanks, g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) not sure , but, if only the seals are bad - a rebuild might be just fine? others will know more. if you don't like what you hear from S-Wings, checkout out RetroRoo in Henderson ; http://retroroo.com/ Shawn will take of you I'm sure! Edited November 18, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overkill Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 not sure , but, if only the seals are bad - a rebuild might be just fine? others will know more. if you don't like what you hear from S-Wings, checkout out RetroRoo in Henderson ; http://retroroo.com/ Shawn will take of you I'm sure! thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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