lvsarge Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hey guys, question on my clutch. So I have been reassembling my Brat (EA71, 1979 MY), and what I noticed is that when I pushed on the clutch pedal the pedal went to the floor with no resistance. I did try adjusting the cable and no dice. I could operate the fork with my hand and feel the springs pulling it back. So I pulled the engine and trans apart, and the clutch and pressure plate appeared to be installed correctly, but I'm pretty sure I had the nuts over torqued to the flywheel. I know it's a measily 12 ft-lbs, but overtorquing the pressure plate isn't going to make it so the throwout bearing not engage the fingers, right? I haven't re-assembled the transmission and engine yet because I can't seem to find out why the bearing would not engage the pressure plate. Pulled the bearing and holder off the shaft, looks fine. Bearing spins and moves fine. Doesn't look the the holder can be installed on the fork any other way than the "correct" way. I did buy a new clutch and plate (probably wasted money), just to make sure I had a kit that was made to go together. Any clues to why the bearing would not engage the fingers? Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 It's early and first sip of coffee but are you sure you didn't get a later gen. kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Fairly certain, I mean everything looks the same to the untrained eye here. This is what I just installed: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=200443 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 so I got the trans back together again, and it is catching, but it seems to be at the very end of the throw. So there's litterally no resistance until the pedal almost hits the floor. I'm wondering if my fork got bent somehow? I didn't notice it bent when I had it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sorry to keep bumping this thread but I have no clue to the problem, can anyone maybe shed some light? Here's what I know: clutch fork operated fine when I started my project of tearing everything apart. I did take the trans as a unit down to my friend's transmission shop to get re-sealed. From pics he sent me, the guys did take the TOB assembly out to clean it up. When I mated the trans, pedal goes to the floor. Adjust the cable all the way back to maximum tightness, and it still goes to the floor. Only the slightest catch. Seems like the whole TOB assembly is sitting too far back and/or the pressure plate is not "deep" enough? Do later model plates bolt up to the ea71 flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sadly I did not keep the original pressure plate, so I don't have a frame of reference. Here is a picture of the pressure plate on the engine when I ruined it pulling the motor from the car: And here are some newer pics of the pressure plate and it installed: First plate first plate and original disk 3rd plate and 2nd clutch disk I realize these pics probably don't help much but at a glance they look like the right product. The 2nd and 3rd plate I had on there are almost identical in the terms of depth and size. The new one may be 1/16" deeper or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 ok I think I figured it out and I'm feeling kind of dumb. Derrr... So, I decided to swap out the clutch cable, the old one was very twisted and out of shape after getting it out and comparing it to my new one. After getting the new one in the pedal feels much better. It'll be a few days until I can fire up the car and test the gearing out but I'm feeling much better about it now. I'll post back here once I've confirmed my stupidity one way or the other. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsunrides Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I was going to ask about the cable, but I assumed that would have been the 1st thing you checked. Since the subject of the cable came up, did you check the pedal box when you changed the cable and make sure it's not cracked? That can cause weird things with the clutch. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 It was the first thing i checked, but I guess it got stretched out? It wasn't broken so I didn't think to replace it. Went to crank the motor tonight but the battery died on me, so it's on charge now. I'll test it tomorrow. As for the box I got down there with a flash light and checked it out and it looks okay. didn't see any cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Couple things to add from my POV Routing that cable correctly and hanging that suspension spring from the sheet metal bracket atop the tranny is mighty important. Next , I'm going on my third pedal box at least !!! Reinforce the box any chance you can. I'm going to work one up over winter. Very limited what you can do due to pedal travel , etc. But so you and other know the typical issue is the flimsy sheit metal wants to give after much flexing and almost always at the left side near the pin the pedals ride on. Good luck to all on this issue. Follow above rule and avoid the second paragraph. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Afterthought - you'll see the clutch cable where a small bracket retains it to the pedal box , move inward as you depress the clutch pedal. The tear in the pedal box is right there between the main pin and the clutch cable retainer. I'd bet good money that is we all got down there with a good flashlight and put our noses to it the majority would see some beginning of the problem. Going to be very common everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Good call on the pedal box, Paul. I knew there was something having to do with it breaking. Luckily my new 78 is still working but I will eventually get it out and reinforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thanks for the input, guys. I will inspect it more closely, especially in the area you mentioned moosens. I suspect I'll need to pull the cable out of the way to look behind it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You should have a clear view from both sides with a little squishing down and slight contortions. Press the pedal and watch the flex on the clutch side. These boxes are flimsy crap. They were still shaking off the last of the bad reputation of the early Japanese imports. Lol Enjoy the horror show. And again I'll mention it for the folks who only read the last posts - routing and suspending that clutch cable is very important or you'll eat cables and destroy pedal boxes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Nick, I finally had some free time and was going ask if you needed a second pair of eyes, until I saw that you solved it. Glad you found the issue. Why does it seem to be the easy stuff that drives you crazy. You ever need help, let me know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Thanks moosens. I'll check just that. The previous owner did not have the clutch cable suspended latterally against the cover plate on the firewall. It wasn't in fact til I put a spring in there with the new cable did it start feeling better. Noel, thanks for the offer. My motivation levels with this project have such highs and lows. Maybe I just need someone to crack the whip to finish this stupid thing up, heh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 Well, much to my dismay, there is still a lingering problem. Got the brat started but it still does not shift properly, or at all, really. I can fight it into 2nd and 3rd, but 1st, 4th and R do not go at all. I have incrementally inched the cable adjustment back until it has gone back as far as you can tighten the nut. The pedal also feels sloppy too. Not as bad as before the cable change but it still doesn't have resistance until about 40% depressed. I'm clueless here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 So I bent the plates a little bit to give it more lateral pull and it seems to have helped. I'm now able to shift. It still seems tight but it goes now. So yay? Anyway my uncle is coming by tomorrow to help me tune the motor and carb, so we will see how it does in the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Nevermind, I seen you replaced the cable already. I have had issues with aftermarket cables failing rather quickly too. Edited November 28, 2015 by Caboobaroo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvsarge Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Hey guys. Thought I'd update here. So I have it all working tip-top now, but I had to "rig" it a little. So I ended up getting a very tight lateral spring and spinning the lock nut all the way back to put as much load on the fork as possible. Like this, I was able to drive it --- but I couldn't reliably shift into gear all of the time. The Clutch was not disengaging fully. So, I ended up stacking a small washer and a small lock washer in front of the nut and it gives me the pre-load I need to shift properly. The washers don't slip out of the groove, so I think it's safe to drive this way, but I still wish I could've just used the cable the way it was intended. Oh well, at least she drives now. Thanks for everyone's input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) some things that go wrong in EA81 models in RHD anyway is the pedal box itself collapses in so the pedal effort is absorbed by flexing pedal box, and others have had things let go at the firewall where engine stopper bracket mounts up letting engine flop about back or forward? when you press clutch pedal in .... OK, so I skipped the pedal box posts on my first read I have reinforced on the inside of the box where not get in anythings way, also done plates and rivets and 1.6mm plate on the weak side Edited January 2, 2016 by jono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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