keith3267 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) My 2014 Legacy 2.5 came with a 2 year maintenance contract so I am about to do the first PM for myself. First I wanted to use the new Pennsoil Ultimate synthetic, but for some reason it can't be found in the 0w20 weight. Next issue is the oil filter, talk about hard to find. I went to Advanced Auto for a pureone oil filter, none listed. They have the Purolator Classic, which is the bottom line filter for about $8. Just for the heck of it, I had the counter guy look up the filter for the H6 engine. They have a Pureone filter for it, so I opened the box and compared it to the basic filter listed for the 2.5 engine. They have the same mounting thread and the same size seal, the difference is the one for the 6 is about a 1/4" larger in radius. I don't see any issues with using it on the H4 engine. Anyone know a reason for not using it. BTW, its a buck cheaper too and a much better quality filter. Its even gold colored. I also bought Mobil 1 EP 0w20 oil. Its going to be in there for 7500 miles. Rant time: Why does Subaru use hard to obtain parts for regular maintenance items. The FOB uses a 1620 battery which is very hard to find, I get them at the Jewelry counter at WalMart for $6 ea. A Toyota uses the common 2032 battery available everywhere at $4 for two ($2 each). Don't get me started about that cabin filter. Edited December 1, 2015 by keith3267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 How do you make paragraphs at this forum? Most places require that you hit the return twice, I did that here but my post came out one long paragraph. It looked OK in the edit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The over-pressure bypass valve has different settings for different filters. So two brands may look alike, but be different inside. 'Gold-colored' and price-level are no guarantee of quality, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 How do you make paragraphs at this forum? Most places require that you hit the return twice, I did that here but my post came out one long paragraph. It looked OK in the edit. Just hit "enter" a couple of times on your keyboard to double space to form paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Gold colored was just a joke. The Pureone oil filter is consistantly the highest rated filter in most of the filter comparisons that I have read. However, it doesn't seem to mean that much anymore as oil filters just don't have any where near as much work to do in todays sealed up, high efficiency, synthetic oiled engines. The oil ressure bypass is usually built into the engine oil filter adapter and not in the filter. I have seen a few filters with a built in relief valve, but I didn't see one in either of the filters for this engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 only in some engines is the relief built into the engine, like the small block Chevy.. The Subaru uses the filter bypass. when it comes down to it, any filter that will fit will filter, but any except the spec filter will void warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDfreak Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Subaru uses hard-to-find parts because it's engineered quite differently from other vehicles. My personal recommendation is to use a Subaru OEM engine oil filter. Brands such as Purolator and Wix do offer oil filters that meet the Subaru-spec bypass valve setting, due to the high-flow oil pumps used on Subaru's boxer engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somick Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Subaru uses hard-to-find parts because it's engineered quite differently from other vehicles. My personal recommendation is to use a Subaru OEM engine oil filter. Brands such as Purolator and Wix do offer oil filters that meet the Subaru-spec bypass valve setting, due to the high-flow oil pumps used on Subaru's boxer engines. I recommend you open Fram oil filter and OEM oil filter and compare them. After that open Purolator Pure One or Wix. After that you will be able to do recommendations! Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDfreak Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I recommend you open Fram oil filter and OEM oil filter and compare them. After that open Purolator Pure One or Wix. After that you will be able to do recommendations! Sam Yes, the blue Honeywell/FRAM Subaru OEM oil filters are structurally similar to a FRAM Toughguard with cardboard endcaps, but they are still different in that the OEM one has that different bypass valve. In addition, although FRAM gets a lot of flak for using cardboard endcaps, I am unaware of any direct engine failures as a direct result of the cardboard end caps used in FRAM oil filters. As I mentioned, some aftermarket alternatives include Purolator and Wix oil filters as they use metal end caps. And then there's the "Six Star" brand of oil filters produced for Subaru by Northeast Imported Parts and "Killer Filters" brand of oil filters who also produce a variant of the H6 OEM oil filter which both meet OEM specs, though I'm not sure if both of them use metal end caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Subaru uses hard-to-find parts because it's engineered quite differently from other vehicles. Using a hard to find battery for the FOB has nothing to do with the engineering of the vehicle, it is simply poor engineering. Same for the oil filter. When I remove the Subaru oil filter, I will check for the bypass valve but I don't see one on the Purolator filters. Edit: the decision on the battery was probably made by the purchasing department rather than engineering. As for the warantee, if the engine fails, Subaru will have to prove that it was the oil filter that caused the failure. They cannot deny a warrantee repair because a non Subaru part was used. Edited December 3, 2015 by keith3267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 how is it poor engineering if, every vehicle they sell uses the same battery, and all except the 6cyls use the same filter... You can't put a filter on it designed for a different engine, and expect a warranty to hold up.. Besides if you were going to do that, a Pl4612 would fit, look the same as the correct filter and I know it will be on the shelf. That's the most common filter for many things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 I looked into this a little more today. I perused through the Fram catalog and for a number of years, all Subarus used the same filter. The 6 cylinders still use that filter but the 4 cylinders have seen two changes. I opened up a package of a Fram toughgard filter and a Fram ultra synthetic filter for the 4 cylinder and both had a built in over pressure valve, but it is plastic. The end caps appear to be metal though. I bought the Ultra filter and will use it tomorrow. I'm going to try to did up more info on the Purolater filters and I may use the 6 cylinder filter on a future oil change depending on what I find. I will also check the oil filter adapter to see if it has an over pressure valve built into it. The dealer is quite a distance from me and I am not on very good terms with them right now due to some issues with how the maintenance was done. I did not give them very good reviews on the Subaru questionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I posted this question on CarTalk.com and one of the regulars posted a link to Amazon for OEM Subaru filters. I read through all the questions and answers and found out that there are only two filters for all Subaru models. They are physically interchangable but all the engines that take 5w30 oil use the filter whose part number ends in 12. That is all engines before 2007, all Outback and Legacy engines before 2011, all turbo engines and all the 6 cylinder engines. The engines that require 0w20 need the filter whose PN ends in 15. I know that engines, all manufacturers, that require 0w20 have different specs in order to control the flow around the main and rod bearings so it is possible that the xx15 filters have something to do with controlling the flow. I also found out that the drain plug uses a crush washer that has to be changed every time. Something else I did not know. I will hit the parts store tomorrow to get one, but I am going to use the Fram filter I bought for this oil change. I will order OEM filters and washers from Amazon from now on. Edited December 5, 2015 by keith3267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 so which filter did u get? 6607, 7317 or 3593A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Not so necessary to change the crush washer on the oil drain plug. It is a good idea, but if you find yourself without a new one, using the old one can still work. Just make sure the bolt is tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The oil ressure bypass is usually built into the engine oil filter adapter and not in the filter. I have seen a few filters with a built in relief valve, but I didn't see one in either of the filters for this engine. Oil filter bypass valve is built into the filter, opposite end of the filter base. Look straight in through the opening, and that metal cup looking thing at the other end of the filter is the support plate for the bypass valve spring. There are very few cars that still use engine mounted bypass valves because they never get changed. They get clogged and can cause the filter media to blow apart and get sucked into the engine. Exploded Diagram of a filter. Scroll down a few paragraphs. http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_filters.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) I did the oil change today. I used the Fram XG 7317 filter and Mobil 1 EP 0w20. I had to reuse the washer. What a PITA. First, the front bumper is too low for me to use my ramps so I had to jack it up and use my jackstands. I got a little misinformation from some of the answers on Amazon about the washer. One of the people providing information said that the 16 mm washers were too big for the new Legacy's. That person must have had one of those repair plugs put in because it absolutely is a 16 mm washer. The parts store did not carry 16 mm washers or gaskets, but based on what I had read, I had bought some 13 mm (1/2") washers. The dealers mechanic had installed the drain plug WAY too tight. I had to use a 24" breaker bar to get it loose. I don't know the torque specs for the drain plug but every other car I have worked on called for somewhere betwee 14 and 22 ft/lbs. Granted that most other vehicles use a 12 mm, 14 mm or 1/2" drain plug so a 16 mm can tolerate a higher torque. But I have seen and heard of many cases of stripped threads in oil pan drains due to over torquing. I suspect that is mostly caused by the use of impact wrenches in the hands of ignorant, rushed and uncaring oil change "technicians". I also replaced the air filter and the cabin air filter. Most glove boxes today are pretty easy to remove, but the Subaru's was quite difficult. Usually you almost close the glove box and lift, but on the Subaru you have to squeeze in a pair of wings that ride in a groove, but these are at the back of the box where the back of the box provides a lot of stiffness. I managed to squeeze them in with a 16"x 1/2" flat blade screwdriver. The box goes back in easy enough though. After I got it apart, I think that it might be easier to spread out the panels with the grooves than to squeeze in the sides of the box itself. The owners manual shows squeezing the box but it wouldn't be the first time an owners manual, or a factory service manual for that matter shows the hardest way to do something instead of the easy way. Happens when the tech writers don't work in the same building as the engineers. The air filter wasn't difficult, not as hard as a Honda anyway. Next time it will go a lot easier, I will be prepared with the right parts from the start. Now to find a pair of ramps that are a little lower that fit under the bumper. Only needs about a 1/4' Edited December 6, 2015 by keith3267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 the torque is 32 ft lbs iirc... Just so you know, the FRAM 7317 does not really cross to the correct filter like the purolators do. The FRAM catalog lists it as correct, but its not exact. It crosses to a 4610 purolator going by specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 If you don't want to mess with the oil drain plug and washers anymore just get a Fumoto Valve. I have had one on my Outback for over 15 years now with zero problems. If you worry about someone getting under your car and opening the valve then just get the hose ring lock that they sell for it. If you are worried about knocking it off if you go off road just look at what else is going to get tore up before the valve does. http://www.qwikvalve.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=search-fumoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the torque spec matt167. The Fram may not cross over to the Purolator, but the Fram is the exact size and it has the same type of PRV (pressure relief valve) that is in the OEM filter. I can't see the PRV in the Purolator, it only has a flat end cap. A flat end cap can still have a PRV, sort of. I can't say for sure if the relief pressure is the same though, can't find those specs. One of the guy's that answers questions on the Amazon site claims to be a Subaru parts person and did list the relief pressures for both the 12A and 15A filters and the 15A is a LOT higher, if he is correct. That means that using the H6 filter is a no go on the H4, so that answers my original question. It looks like I was wrong on Subaru only having two filters. It seems that the new 2.0 turbocharged engine has a different filter so that makes three. The 12A filter replaces all previous Subaru filters so there are other filters, but they are obsoleted by the 12A. Edited December 6, 2015 by keith3267 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Interesting.. I deal with Fram filters every day, since I'm a service technician.. The 12A filter crosses to a PH9715 filter that, I don't think we even carry. spec pressure is 16-28 PSI. We cross a 6607 to that application using our Fram book.. The 15A filter crosses to the 7317 altho the 7317 spec pressure is 13 PSI which I know is too low on a Subaru.. Our service filter books call to install a 6607 in place where a 6607 is spec'd or a 7317 is spec'd, which makes the 6607 service filter we use, work for pretty much any 4cyl Subaru after 2002, Honda's starting in '02-'03, Nissans, Mitsubishi's, most Kia's and many others... The predecessor filters of the 12A are the same filter. it's an engineering change. likely manufacture changes Edited December 6, 2015 by matt167 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith3267 Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 matt are you saying the Fram 7317 should not be used? Since Fram lists that as the filter for my Subaru, I would think that would open them up to a lot of liability if it caused engine damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) sort of.. FRAM says it works and it does. The issue comes is that, they have an 'if it fits, it ships ' way of thinking. The 6607 and 7317 are identical except the 7317 is longer.. If you search Fram by application, it will tell you 7317 for FB engines. 6607 for 2004-10 ej and 3593a for most 2003 and older ej. If you cross the 12a OEM filter you get the 9715.. Now does it really matter. Not really. The bypass will open sooner, but the filter will filter.. If the threads and gasket match, it will work.. But Subaru could have a warranty issue with Fram since they technically spec the wrong filter Edited December 8, 2015 by matt167 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) I suggest you look up fram vs other filters like wix and Napa brand filters. You will never put another fram filter on your car. Buy yourself a quality filter stay away from fram. Edited December 8, 2015 by mikaleda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 ( WARNING ) For You Fram Oil Filter Lover's.YouTu…: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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