Front wheel bearing failure in less than two years

[ThosL]

I went to a local repair shop a couple years ago for my front wheel bearing they replaced.  They also installed a ball joint and tie rod end.   Fast forward two years, today I had the vehicle up on the lift and they said I needed them replaced again, also the CV joints and a tie rod or two. Estimate = $1700!.  They said the vehicle had gone over the mileage guarantee....  Do I have any options here, shouldn't the parts place guarantee bearings or do they sunset those too?  Also do problem CV joints or other such issues lead to wheel bearing failure?

[Fairtax4me]

A CV problem won't cause a bearing failure. A bearing failure can cause CV problems though.

Tons of other things can cause early bearing failure:

Cheap bearing installed last time

Improperly installed

Improperly torqued axle nut

Using old hub seals or forgetting to install new seals (had that happen on my 95)

 

If it lasted two years, I would guess either the first or the last above.

 

Many parts places offer a warranty on bolt-in bearing/hub assemblies, but usually not for press-in type, and at that, warranties are generally only 30-90 days, Sometimes 1 year.

 

 

Id find a new shop. They're ripping you off installing cheap parts to get you to come back and spend more.

[porcupine73]

How bad was the old wheel bearing before it was replaced? How many miles on the new bearing? If they go too long it can damage the hub, or if the hub was damaged or somewhat out of round that can cause the new bearing to fail early. Also who knows what brand/quality part was used and if it was put in properly.

[ThosL]

Mileage was around 50K on the two front wheel bearings since it was done; I can get original records.  Axle nuts were not touched in the two years.

 

Can struts not performing up to par cause the problem?  Thanks.  

[golucky66]

I installed a wheel bearing in my 97' impreza and learned the hard way. After getting it done and then doing the other side  

I found out 5k later that the bearings came dry (with only minor lubrication to prevent rust) I was supposed to grease them much better then i did because I figured it was good to go.

Lesson learned...

 

Probably not the case here, I'd personally think it was just a cheapy part.

Edited January 5, 2016 by golucky66

[idosubaru]

why are you focusing on what they said rather than symptoms?   

do you repair your car based on what people say or actual physical symptoms and needs?

if you have no symptoms - just carry on, who cares what they say?

 

if you do have issues - then state what they are - that's more helpful than guessing and ambiguity. 

 

this is all standard OPS for any vehicle work:

 

many shops, and personal owners too, will replace more parts than necessary.  ask what he minimum to repair is or go get a second opinion if you dont' like it. 

wheel bearings can have repeat failures if the hubs were damaged from driving too long on them in bad condition - if that's the case replace the hub too

if pressed in improperly the hubs can also be damaged - a hub tamer is preferred over a press. 

strut and cv axles do not cause wheel bearing failures.

parts/repair warranties are often 12,000 miles or 12 months - you're way beyond that.  but more to the point-  you can simply ask the shop what they're warranty is - it's usually written somewhere or ask the parts place what the warranty is.  ask the parts place too what warranties typically are for wheel bearings.  either way you're beyond typical waranty time spans but then you'd know without just guessing and he-said-she-said circles. 

 

why was the vehicle "on a lift"?

 

your question is ambiguous:

 

I needed them replaced again,

 

"them" - what is that?  bearings, tie rod and ball joint.....

 

it's almost like you're trying really hard not to help yourself out. 

[ThosL]

The shop put the Subaru up on the standard lift to examine the front end and showed me the wobble in the front wheels.  CV joint boots are torn; the grating sound I was hearing was actually the brake rotor, metal on metal on the worn pad.  

 

Last oil change I asked Monro to check out any defective front end issues, the guy said he saw none, less than a couple months ago.  Another mechanic did rear wheel bearing a few weeks ago, no mention of the other issues.

 

Probably replacing the wheel hub/spindles would make sense at this point, getting them used from the junkjard if I want to put a lot more miles on the vehicle.

[idosubaru]

Fix known issues and then move on to the lesser known issues:

fix the CV axles.

fix the seized caliper slide.

 

Newer generation Subaru wheel bearings rarely have play - it's almost pointless to even check for play- one with play is usually so bad it's obvious what the issue is.

 

Doesn't sound to me like you have a bad wheel bearing: 
1.  no noise

 

2.  they said "wobble" - subaru bearings are unlikely to wobble (unless really bad in which case you would mention noise or not need someone to tell you they're bad)

 

3.  "wheels" - plural.  you have a better chance of winning the lottery twice than having both front wheel bearings exhibit the exact same, identical "wobble" with no noise or alternate symptoms.

if someone said they owned an albino monkey with 3 ears....it's probably technically possible...but highly suspect. 

 

General mechanics often make assumptions across manufacturers that don't hold.  what is true for one manufacturer often is significantly different with others.  i've done it a number of times-  assumed something I know from Subaru world is the case when helping a friend with a Volvo, Chevy, Dodge...and i've been wrong.  mechanics can't keep tabs on every manufacturer and model across 3 decades. 

 

They're also dealing with a fickle, demanding, entitled population so sometimes they're better off - pricing consumers out of a job or in general pricing high.  If they try to pinpoint and replace the one thing that's the issue and then the customer has another issue a monht later and comes back with, "Why didn't you find this issue last month?  Is this your fault?  Did your work cause this?"  - sometimes it's simpler for them to quote bigger jobs than the bare minimum as a CYA or a service, since some people just appreciating getting everything possible done "while you're in there" - depending on the local clientele and market economy. 

 

lots of variables - it's not worth parsing or dissecting - just make the best decision for you and your situation. 

[mikaleda]

I wouldn't expect anyone to warranty a part 50k and two years later. I would have another shop look at it though, because that price does seem excessive. Another thing you might consider is where you live, like I live down a really crappy un maintained road so I always opt for the more expensive parts since they see a lot more abuse than the average car.

 

 

My suggestion is to get a second opinion.

[keith3267]

I second getting another opinion, and get it from a reputable mechanic.  I can make any front wheel wobble, even on a brand new car so the second I hear of a mechanic showing a customer that the front wheels are wobbling, I see a snow job in progress.  There is no valid test or diagnosis for any front end part that involves making the wheel wobble.  There are a lot of tests, but that is not one.

 

Wheel bearing make noise, lots of noise long before there is any detectable end play in the axles or hub assembly.  The sound varies from a roar similar to mudder tires or other off road tires to a sound like a propeller on a small aircraft.  Often the sound will vary if you are turning right or left.  The variation in the sound during a turn is the biggest giveaway to a bad bearing, but I have had a bad bearing that did not vary very much, barely detectable, but usually it is very noticeable.

 

If you are not getting a clicking sound when cornering, then your CV joint is good and you can just have the boots replaced.  The cost to just replace the boots is often the same as a reman axle, but I find most remans to be junk.  If yours are not clicking on turns, then I would recommend that you save the axle, but you have to act quickly because once the boot is torn, the CV joint can be ruined in a matter of days.

 

Edit: once you get a good independent mechanic, use them for everything, even oil changes.  Keep them in business.

Edited January 5, 2016 by keith3267

[CNY_Dave]

'Wobble' is more likely a ball joint or tie-rod-end if there is no droning noise, especially if they are not checking for looseness in multiple orientations (in-out at front of tire and in-out at top)

 

But, I have seen a few loose wheel bearing with no noise threads, just not many.

[ThosL]

Fix known issues and then move on to the lesser known issues:

fix the CV axles.

fix the seized caliper slide.

 

Newer generation Subaru wheel bearings rarely have play - it's almost pointless to even check for play- one with play is usually so bad it's obvious what the issue is.

 

Doesn't sound to me like you have a bad wheel bearing: 

1.  no noise

 

2.  they said "wobble" - subaru bearings are unlikely to wobble (unless really bad in which case you would mention noise or not need someone to tell you they're bad)

 

3.  "wheels" - plural.  you have a better chance of winning the lottery twice than having both front wheel bearings exhibit the exact same, identical "wobble" with no noise or alternate symptoms.

if someone said they owned an albino monkey with 3 ears....it's probably technically possible...but highly suspect. 

 

General mechanics often make assumptions across manufacturers that don't hold.  what is true for one manufacturer often is significantly different with others.  i've done it a number of times-  assumed something I know from Subaru world is the case when helping a friend with a Volvo, Chevy, Dodge...and i've been wrong.  mechanics can't keep tabs on every manufacturer and model across 3 decades. 

 

They're also dealing with a fickle, demanding, entitled population so sometimes they're better off - pricing consumers out of a job or in general pricing high.  If they try to pinpoint and replace the one thing that's the issue and then the customer has another issue a monht later and comes back with, "Why didn't you find this issue last month?  Is this your fault?  Did your work cause this?"  - sometimes it's simpler for them to quote bigger jobs than the bare minimum as a CYA or a service, since some people just appreciating getting everything possible done "while you're in there" - depending on the local clientele and market economy. 

 

lots of variables - it's not worth parsing or dissecting - just make the best decision for you and your situation. 

 

There are many types of mechanics; the best are honest, fair, plain-speaking, communicative, not under-handed, surly, two-faced, incompetent, greedy, pig-headed, refractory, irresponsible, or evasive.  

 

Many parts places have lifetime guarantees on some parts where the charge covers the small percentage of parts with those claims.  So for every part that does fail a small number of replacements are requested and claimed.  It is usually a very steep obstacle to overcome to get any type of guarantee honored.  I know with what I have sold over the years well into the millions in parts and services I have always been happy to cover any irresponsibility on my part with refunds.  

 

The shop kept me waiting until the end of the day until they got to the Subaru;  The mechanic who checked out my car had me sign the following acknowledgement.  "Advised customer vehicle is unsafe to drive and should not be on the road. Right front wheel bearing and hub are falling off of car, right front pads and rotors are grinding metal to metal. Possible damage to caliper, tie rod (sic) need to be replaced an (sic) ball joints are broken. Both left and right front axles need to be replaced. This vehicle is not safe for the road and should not be driven. Advised customer of all the issues and conserns (sic). Customer denied work at this time. "

[JT95]

Ahhhh...wheel bearings.  The hub could be damaged.  The replacement bearings could have been on the crappy side.  I think 1 yr tops any warranty from shops or parts stores.  Subaru dealership warranties bearings for 1 year.  I have replaced my own wheel bearings before, had a local shop do it, and had dealership do it.  Longevity was hit and miss all around.  That's with a '95 Legacy and a '99 Impreza.  I think I'd rather give birth to a buffalo than replace my own wheel bearings again--I hate that job.  I think I will always go to a Subaru dealership, as I know they will stand behind it hassle free if they crap out within warranty period.  SOA even was sweet once and covered a free replacement just past my warranty period. 

[Rooster2]

+1 on above JT95's post. I too hate doing work on wheel bearings. Tried it a couple of times with poor success. Even bought, and used something called a Hub Tammer to swap in replacement bearing. After replacing wheel bearings twice on same front wheel, I figured out that the hub was bad. I went to a wrecking yard, and bought a hub, with what looked like a fairly new bearing, as it looked rather clean. That was the best wheel bearing move I have ever made. That has been about 4 years ago, and replacement hub is still going strong.

 

I sold my hub tammer, and in the future will only use wrecking yard hubs.

[idosubaru]

I sold my hub tammer, and in the future will only use wrecking yard hubs.

 

and i've used it for one XT6 and one OBW now, thanks!

i wouldn't want to use that tool without air tools, that's some serious wrenching!

[Rooster2]

and i've used it for one XT6 and one OBW now, thanks!

i wouldn't want to use that tool without air tools, that's some serious wrenching!

So, I am guessing I sold it to you. It has been a while..........knew I sold it to someone on this forum. Yea, air tools make a huge difference. I don't have air tools. Doing the "Armstrong Method" to work the Tammer got really old in a hurry. Glad it has worked out well for you.

[ThosL]

A local vehicle recycling yard has two replacement spindles, $65 each, very fair price.  Plus they recommended a local mechanic that will do the job.  Hopefully I get this job done at a reasonable price, after the problems are nailed down by them.  No sense in changing out parts if they aren't bad.

[idosubaru]

 I don't have air tools. Doing the "Armstrong Method" to work the Tammer got really old in a hurry.

 

Yeah, I picked it up from you.  Oh my!  used part, have a shop press it, sell the tool, you chose wisely, that tool is not worth using by hand IMO.  That gives the impact a work out, i put my 1,000 ft/lb 3/4" gun on that. 

[uniberp]

I've had trouble with wheel bearings. It seems the brand makes a difference. There are several suppliers.

 

I used SKF (the only brand I recognized and most expensive that my machine shop offered) this last time, and although I doubt that it's other than "Washed card syndrome", I think there is less running noise from that side now.

 

"National" I will no longer use. Prices on rockauto range from $11-$45 for my 08 Foz. That might indicate a difference in quality.

Edited January 8, 2016 by uniberp

[ThosL]

A garage installed the two front spindles from the used parts junkyard today, vehicle runs fine in that regard.  But they forgot to install the the two cv joints and rotors I had told them about that were in the back of the car.  They said they would put those in on Monday if I wanted.  

 

As far as I know the front wheel bearings were original on the car when I bought it with mileage around 125K.  For the bearings to go after two years of use is not normal, the second garage confirmed the faulty wheel bearings, but once installed there were no other vehicle issues needing immediate attention.  It makes me wonder whether Moog units or some other after market bearings were installed two years ago.  

[mikaleda]

A lot of things can happen over 2 years and 50k miles, also how bad were they before you changed them the first time and did the shop replace just the bearings or did they change the hub too. Did they use good grease, did they change the seals and grease the lips of the seal.

 

On these I will typical include the price of a new hub since its rare that they are caught in time for the hub to not be damaged.

 

There are still a lot of factors involved and part quality is just one of them.

 

I still say, no one would warranty a wheel bearing 2 years and 50k miles later, even though that is a very short life span. There are just too many things that can happen over that period of time.

[ThosL]

Hopefully others will be forewarned about possibly damaged hubs, probably that happened initially, maybe why the bearings failed.  Recycled parts make a lot of sense with lots of bearing grease, too bad they don't still have grease fitting that might save a lot of aggravation.