96 Subaru Outback Legacy 2.5L: KNOCKING, please help!

[soupy]

Bought a junker for cheap and saw the bubbles in the reservoir tank. It overheated 7 times in my care, and who knows how many before I bought it. I replaced the head gaskets, belt, some pulleys, tensioner etc. Timing was off by a tooth at first but managed to fix and started her up. Ran real good. Three fill ups of 87 octane. I noticed an intense shaking from 60 to 70 mph but figured It just needed the tires balanced. About 400 miles after up and running; I was doing 70 on the highway, about ten minutes after a fill up of 87, a knocking that was really loud all of the sudden developed. I pulled over and drove 5mph to the nearest gas station which was around 10 miles away. This was the coldest night it had been the far in the year as well. Definitely not what the car was used to. I thought it might just need some oil. I was wrong and ended up getting it towed to the parking spot in front of my house. Since that night, Ive been starting it once a week so that the car does not get ticketed to move it to the opposite side …(philadelphia). It doesn't feel like it has any loss of power, there're no lights on the dash, it seems like its normal besides the awful knocking. I really hope its not rod knock which I barely can even define. I hope the its the belt tensioner because Ive seen other with that problem. Maybe all the times it overheated and the coolant mixing with the oil did some unseen damage. Maybe theres no oil pressure. I have a stethoscope that I will be playing around with tomorrow so hopefully I can point out the noise. I uploaded a video on Youtube; its posted below.

Pleaae help me figure this out. Winter is here.

Edited January 25, 2016 by soupy

[ocei77]

Link doesn't work.

The 2.5 doesn't take kindly to repeated overheating. The bearings go.

This may be what you're encountering.

BTW the 96 2.5 requires premium.

 

O.

[Rooster2]

When head gaskets go bad on a 98, 2.5 motor, the result is over heating, with exhaust gas entering the cooling system, but it does not result in coolant mixing with the oil. So, don't think low oil pressure is your problem. Yes, as you know, the belt tensioner can make noise like a bad rod bearing. As mentioned, the 2.5 motor does not take kindly to repeated over heating. The bearings are not the most robust, and poor lubrication at the time of over heating is hard on the bearings. That too, is my concern.

[idosubaru]

 overheated and the coolant mixing with the oil

 

if it mixed oil and coolant then it was probably overheated REALLY REALLY bad.  these engines dont' mix oil and coolant when the headgasket blows unless it was severely overheated or a botched prior replacement. 

 

sounds like it's probably rod knock but you'll want to verify. 

pull timing covers and check for the tensioner slapping .

flexplate can crack too.

 

i have a good block if you need one 135,000 miles

[AdventureSubaru]

multiple overheats with existing head gasket leakage sounds like you fried the bearings. At any rate, a 2.5 that's overheated is not to be trusted for very long anyway. Very likely that the bearings are failing and you've got a rod knock.

 

Look up the EJ22 swaps. Much more reliable motor that is bolt in for your car. A 1995 EJ22 from an automatic car will require no modification to drop in place of the cooked 2.5. Usually a 300,000 mile motor without head gasket issues and is non interference from 1990-1996

[soupy]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JoKBIeHhFj0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sorry here is the video.

[ccrinc]

That, my friend, is a rod knock.  No doubt about it.

 

Emily

[soupy]

UPDATE:

Today I poked around with the stethoscope. It sounds the loudest on the passenger side intake manifold?. I tried to get as close to the belt tensioner as possible but honestly didn't seem to be coming from timing belt housing bolts. I had someone rev the engine to get the rpms up to hear the secondary rattle/knock and had my stethoscope on the oil pan. Definitely audible from there, but it's hard to tell where exactly its coming from still. Im definable thinking its rod knock. So now, Subaru owners, what should I do? Drop a 2.2 in? Ive never pulled or put in an engine before but it sounds like 2.2 is the way to go. It sucks that all these components were just replaced and now Ill have to discard along with the 2.5. I live in Philadelphia, does anyone have any experience with a shop willing to put in a used engine around here? How about a good mechanic in general who knows Subarus? Also, when you find a used motor do the yards usually help you put it into your truck etc. I think I may be able to use a garage in Western PA that has a hoist. Thanks for all your replies already!

[AdventureSubaru]

It's not a bad job even for a first timer. A cherry picker can be built with some 2x4s or 4x4s and some steel castor wheels. I've done remove and reinstalls in as little as 5 hours.

 

Most yards will pull the motor for you and help you load it but unless they are partnered with a garage of some sort, wont install it for you. Subaru shops can usually do it (Though some have zero working knowledge of a 2.2 swap and some will wrongly tell you it can't be done.

 

But yes. A 2.2 swap is both the cheapest and most reliable solution for your car. Here's the combos to look for.

 

1995 EJ22 from a car with an automatic transmission. This will be equipped with EGR and is direct bolt in all the way across.

 

1996-1998 EJ22 with automatic trans is EGR equipped but single port exhaust. Get the Y-pipe/header pipe from the donor car and swap it as well.

 

1995-1998 with manual trans - no EGR - single port exhaust on 96-98 - same as above - will swap and drive fine but will result in a check engine light unless you get an intake manifold from a 95-98 EGR equipped intake manifold and use the workaround to remove the check engine light. (Takes $5. worth of home depot hose couplings and 10 minutes to install)

 

1990-1994 - long block is the same. Requires a 1995-1998 intake manifold and wiring.

 

usually you can find one for around $300-$500. You can install it yourself in a weekend your first time, or pay a shop to do it. (Or take a stab at hiring someone to do it in your garage/driveway.)

 

The two "gotchas" that you need to be sure of if your car is an automatic. 1 - make sure the torque converter is fully seated. Should be 1/8 of an inch spacing between the starter hole on the transmission and the back of the torque converter. There's a writeup on the site on how to fully seat it. Takes 30 seconds once you have the hang of it. 2. make sure to use the flex plate from your 2.5 motor. The one that may come with the 2.2 motor is smaller diameter and wont match the torque converter.

Otherwise it's just a matter of pulling the old motor and dropping the new one in

[soupy]

Well, how does one know if the engine is a good one? I found some on car-parts.com for 500 and under near the area but how would you know until you install it and start it. I might just sell this and start over. Engine swap is 550 where I live and I have no garage to do it myself.

[Rooster2]

I had a garage swap in a 2.2 motor into wife's 98 OBW. The result has worked out well for a $400, 1995 motor.. It is a gamble that you can get a good motor from a wrecking yard. The best motors come from cars that has been wrecked. At least you know the car was probably driving during the accident. The wrecking yards will guarantee the motor for several months, however, if you get a bad motor, you are out the cost for labor to have a second motor installed.

 

Sometimes a wrecking yard will recommend a garage that will install the motor for you. If you are serious about buying a motor, ask if they can recommend an installer. Last time I went this route, the cost was $500 to have the motor installed. 

[idosubaru]

Used engines are very commonly used, not a big deal.  THough it's wise to be timid of EJ25's. 

Most yard engines are good - find one that went to the yard for rust or wrecks - very common.  Then presumably the engine was good. 

But obviously still risky.  Most offer a 3 or 60 month warranty - but you're paying the labor again - unless the shop warranties that too (i think some do if htey work with local yards)

So you just have to check - I've bought engines and trans and never had issues.

 

If you're driving certain cars like Ford Exploders, certain 4WD Isuzu transmissions, and Ford taurus torque converter - that fail commonly but "start and lot drive" - then yeah, those are a bit scarier.  

 

I had one bad JDM engine but I'll take some of the blame on that because it wasn't a yard and there were red flags from the seller - a one-off sale, not very upfront, cheap, I should have walked. 

 

I have a known good 135,000 EJ25 - $500 with new headgaskets and resurfaced heads.  Bolt your timing bits on it and you're good to go.

Edited January 28, 2016 by grossgary