Finding the right sealants for the engine front end.

[mrfixiter]

Hi

 

This question is for a 1997 Legacy GT Wagon DOHC.

 

I'm trying to get everything together to change the valve cover gaskets, cam seals, water pump, crank seal, oil pump o-ring, t-belt, idlers, tensioner, and water pump

 

My experience so far with this type of repair is watching a lot of youtube videos and reading many of the excellent topics in this forum.

 

I'm fairly certain I have all the tricks figured out in replacing the timing belt. That doesn't worry me. What concerns me are the smaller details like what type of sealant to use for each part that needs it. I wanted to  purchase a tube of Loctite-Permatex #599 Ultra Grey as suggested in this post. I have had good luck buying parts from advanceauto parts at good prices but the Ultra Grey sealants they stock are:

 

Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (3.5 oz)

Permatex Ultra Grey Maximum Torque Gasket Maker (3.5 oz.)

Permatex Ultra Grey RTV Gasket Maker (9.5 oz)

 

Are any of those sealers comparable to the #599 product? Is there one product that I will be able to use for the valve cover gaskets, oil pump gasket, and water pump gasket or will I need a particular one for each? Also, do you use Loctite on all the screws and is there a particular Loctite product number to use?

 

Thanks for your replies.

[porcupine73]

Here's a chart Subaru had out about alternative sealants. Some people prefer the anaerobic sealant for the oil pump. For one it eliminates the chance of getting a chunk of rtv stuck in one of the oil passages. It looks like maybe Permatex changed up their product line a bit, this is what I had used years ago but it says no longer available: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Permatex-Ultra-Series-RTV-Silicone-Gasket-Maker-599-ultra-grey-rigid-rump roast.-gasket-maker-3.5-tub/19278839

 

 

Re the thread sealer, only spot that would really need that would be the oil pump backing plate screws. If they're loose or you can get them out, I'd go with red or the strongest locker you can get, since basically if you need to remove those screws to get at the rotors you probably would just replace the entire pump anyway. If you can't get the oil pump backing plate screws loose then I'd just use green or the wicking type.

Edited February 1, 2016 by porcupine73

[ccrinc]

 

Permatex Ultra Grey RTV Gasket Maker (9.5 oz)

 

Are any of those sealers comparable to the #599 product? Is there one product that I will be able to use for the valve cover gaskets, oil pump gasket, and water pump gasket or will I need a particular one for each? Also, do you use Loctite on all the screws and is there a particular Loctite product number to use?

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

That's the one you need.  BUT, you don't any sealer on any of the items you mentioned above.  Just make sure you get the metal water pump gasket and not the paper one which frequently comes with them.

 

Emily

[mrfixiter]

Hi Emily

 

 

Permatex Ultra Grey RTV Gasket Maker (9.5 oz)

 

That's the one you need.  BUT, you don't any sealer on any of the items you mentioned above.  Just make sure you get the metal water pump gasket
and not the paper one which frequently comes with them.

Did you leave out a word in your reply? Did you mean to say,

 

BUT, you don't need any sealer on any of the items you mentioned above.

Thanks.

[idosubaru]

what emily said - no sealant needed except for oil pump, that's what she meant, and defintily use a subaru water pump gasket, the aftermarkets are flimsy cardboard. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by grossgary

[Olnick]

Get an Aisin water pump--they come with a Subaru OEM quality metal gasket.

[mrfixiter]

Hi
 
I ordered the Aisin water pump and the timing belt kit with all oem parts.

 

Do I need to drain the oil before removing the oil pump? I don't need any surprises here.
 
Thanks for your reply.

[Fairtax4me]

No need to drain the oil before removal of the pump, but you will want to change it after doing the work. 

 

You will need a catch pan or bucket under the pump to catch the oil that does come out when you remove it. It isn't much, but just enough to make a mess. 

 

Permatex Anaerobic Sealant is what I prefer for oil pumps on these. It prevents getting little globs of RTV breaking away from the pump and clogging the feed ports for the rocker shafts in the heads. 

 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/32930742?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=202&adid=22222222227021903836&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=51798629711&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=83201292551&veh=sem

 

Usually comes in a bit larger size tube at most parts stores for around $10-12. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Fairtax4me

[mrfixiter]

Hi

 

I started with the valve cover gasket. Can you please tell me if I need to remove whatever this substance is indicated by the red arrow before I reassemble it with the new gasket? It's in a few other places too. It looks like grease but perhaps it was some type of sealant?

 

http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Subaru/surface-for-gasket.jpg

 

Thanks for your reply.

Edited February 15, 2016 by mrfixiter

[idosubaru]

the only part that matters is the part where the new valve cover gasket will seat. 

 

most of the stuff you're pointing to is just sitting on metal and is entirely benign. 

 

you want the valve cover gasket sitting on clean bare metal - clean that part.  it's delineated by a clear line in your picture where the old gasket set.  clean that to bare metal.

[mrfixiter]

Hi

 

I received all the parts and started disassembling the components yesterday. There's a bit of difference from watching someone else do it on a video and doing it yourself. I have a few miscellaneous questions.

 

The service manual gives these instructions regarding the installation of the thermostat:

 

The thermostat must be installed with the jiggle pin upward.
In this time, set the jiggle pin of thermostat for front side.

I know that the side with the coiled spring faces inward toward the pump but what does the second part of the instructions mean?

 

Previously it was mentioned here that the screws on the back of the oil pump may come loose and cause some leaks. I checked to see how loose they were but I couldn't even remove them with an impact driver! While I had the oil pump off, I removed the old crank seal. It didn't look too bad but it took quite a bit of force to remove it. I had to use some needle nose pliers to pull it out. While removing it, I noticed a small spring, about 1 3/8" in diameter sitting inside the seal. Was that part of the old seal or something from the oil pump? The spring is still in good shape in case I need to reassemble it.

 

The advantage of having the oil pump out of the engine was that I didn't have to worry about being delicate around the crank shaft. My question is, if the cam seals are that difficult to remove, and they don't look too bad either, should I just go buy a seal remover to do the job? There's no way I'll be able to remove them safely with the cam shaft sitting right there. I didn't see any oil leaking around them but maybe it only leaks when the engine is running. I don't know.

 

There seems to be something in common with all of the screws in the front of the engine. A picture of one of them is here.

http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Subaru/Oil-pump-screw.jpg

At the bottom of the screw there is a white substance on them. Toward the middle, there is caked on grime. Some of the screws have so much gunk in the middle of the screw that it's difficult to tell where the threads are. The screws in the water pump seem to be affected the most. However, they were easily removed so maybe it's just a cosmetic problem and they don't need to be replaced?

 

Thanks for your reply.

[gravitate]

From what I've noticed on my vehicle it seams that the white stuff is from either water corrosion or the sealant used by the factory or dealership. The dealership said they use a white teflon  paste/sealant on the threads and I've noticed it on quite a few parts on my Subarus. If you have a wire brush on a dremmel tool it works excellent on getting the old stuff off. As long as there is no rust I wouldn't replace the bolts. On my recent engine rebuild I used ultra grey on certain threads and on my oil pan and it works good. Although if I was close to a big town I would have purchased Hondabond or Yamabond from a dealearship. It is the same thing as threebond (what subaru recommends instead of ultra grey). But it's a fraction of the price of threebond. I would however recommend anerobic gasket maker on oil pumps for the reason that it won't get hard and brake loose in your system. That spring that you saw sits on the back side of the seal, same thing on the cam seals.Your new seals will have them on them. .  You can also take off the seal housing on the cam seals which are held in with a few bolts on each side. There are big o-rings on the back side of those as well so replace them too if you go that route. You get the seals on more flush this way too but it's easier to not take all that off.  I just use  a small screw driver and hammer it into the seal and pry it out. Just make sure not to face the blade towards the shaft.  I never use sealants on my valve gaskets and I never have leaks. All the gaskets I have bought said not to use sealants.  I just clean the surfaces real good with brake cleaner and a green scotchbrite pad with light pressure.

Edited March 8, 2016 by gravitate

[mrfixiter]

Hi

Getting back to the sealant question, when I removed the thermostat case, there were small traces of silicone remaining on the case. I noticed there wasn't a gasket there. Is there supposed to be a gasket there other than the rubber ring that goes around the thermostat? Do I need any kind of sealant there?

I am still curious what this means:

The thermostat must be installed with the jiggle pin upward.
In this time, set the jiggle pin of thermostat for front side.

 

I removed the two screws for what I thought was the LH exhaust cam seal housing. I didn't see anything come loose. Does this require more screws being removed under the valve cover?

 

Thanks for your reply.

Edited March 11, 2016 by mrfixiter

[mrfixiter]

Here's a follow up:

 

I managed to remove the cam seal. i lubed the new one and tapped it lightly with a 1/4" extension bar but every time I tapped in one side, the other side came out. Then I had an idea that if I stacked up the three remaining new seals along with the old crank seal, I could use those to make an extension tube-like device. I tapped those on with a rubber mallet and I saw the seal sink in but when I took a closer look, again it had not seated all the way in. I tried all different kinds of tubes pipes. Nothing worked. I realigned the new seal on the shaft and I gave another try at stacking up the new seals again . One, two, three? Where was the third remaining new seal? I looked everywhere. I thought it fell into my pile of parts somewhere. Oh well. I'll buy another one. Then I looked in a not so obvious place. I removed the seal I was trying to pound in and found another new seal under it. When I initially made my stack of seals, I did such a good job that I pounded the first one in and another one almost went in too. The seal is fairly deep in there and I don't think that's going to work like that, will it? If I could just figure out how to remove the cam housing and perhaps push it out from behind. Thoughts?

 

Thanks for your reply.

[kamesama980]

Re: white residue in the bolt threads: several kinds of threadlocker turn white after the application of heat and removing them. Where it is (deep in the threads, polished outer threads, and goobers of it further up toward the head)  also indicates it was a sealant/threadlocker.