Dead 96' 2.5L DOHC and about 30 hours of troubleshooting

[DanChas]

Hello all,

My first post is a doozie!!

I have been working on a 1996 Legacy Outback on and off for several weeks.  I have a Chiltons manual which should be in the recycle bin.  I have found numerous errors that drove me crazy until I finally figured out which diagrams will actually work with my vehicle.

To preface this, the vehicle was running when it came into my garage.  I changed out blown head gaskets, Installed new valve seals and timing belt.  I have roughly 130 psi in each cylinder so I know I installed the belt properly.  Installation went well though getting engine apart was one of the hardest engine jobs I've ever done.

The engine will not start!!!!!  I tested the coil  pak, ignitor, and wiring all the way back to the ECM.  BTW I can smell fuel at the exhaust pipe so I'm pretty sure the injectors are putting something out.  

I set up a test for the ECM  to check the coil firing signal at the ignitor.  I used 2 LED's with 470 ohm resistors in series with the coil firing wires from the ECM.  When I crank the engine I see the LED's firing strangely.  Coil one LED fires twice for every single firing of the number 2 coil yet the engine still does not fire.  

I traced the Cam and Crank sensor wires and they are intact all the way to the ECM.  I changed both sensors even though they tested good on the bench.  I also changed out the Coil Pak just to make sure I was dealing with a new set of coils.   The coil pak failed the bench test as it would only fire once and then nothing.

What have I missed?  I'd love some useful advice, thanks!

[wtdash]

Hi,

May not be useful, but the Subaru coil pack uses a 'wasted spark' ignition system...FWIW.

 

What does your code scanner show you? What Stored codes?

 

GL,

TD

[Fairtax4me]

Should be seeing more like 180-200 psi compression. I'm inclined to think that's due to a cam timing problem. 

 

Can you remove the timing covers and take pictures of all the timing marks lined up? 

 

 

There should be 6 notches on the back edge of the crankshaft timing sprocket. Did any of those notches get broken off? If its missing one the engine will not start, or may start but will run very rough. 

[AdventureSubaru]

Triple check timing. It's almost always something missed.

 

Keep it simple - No start = no spark, no fuel, timing issue. The poor mans test is almost always sufficient. Pull a plug and check for spark. Spray some starter fluid down the throttle body and see if it starts. Pull your timing covers and check all your marks. (The hash marks must align on the crank pulley, not the arrow. And don't use the marks on the timing cover for anything there either.

 

I'm betting the timing is off.

[DanChas]

There were no codes generated and I checked several times.  My code reader sees the system and loads up but there are never any codes.

All of the notches are on the crankshaft timing sprocket.  There aren't any hash marks on the crank timing pulley just an arrow and that's what the Chilton's manual showed for the DOHC engine and also what other blogs and Youtubers said to do.

I lined up the cams so that the single line on intake pulley of No. 1 was up and the double lines on intake and exhaust were facing each other. (intake down and exhaust up).  No. 2 and 4 side cam pulleys also have the double lines facing each other (intake down and exhaust up).  All belt lines fit to the cam lines perfectly.  

Now I'm suspicious of this hash mark and not the arrow thing.  What does this hash mark look like as all I can see on the crank pulley is the arrow.

The insanity goes deeper.

I will tear it apart again and pull the covers off and take pictures.  Maybe I'll get to the bottom of this!!

Thanks for the help. 

[Fairtax4me]

Hash mark is on the rear of the sprocket on one of the notches.

 

When the hash mark is up, the sprocket key way will be straight down.

 

Kinda sounds like the crank is 90° off.

 

Clear pic of the crank timing notch in this post: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/139111-timing/

Edited March 2, 2016 by Fairtax4me

[AdventureSubaru]

yup. Can't use the arrow. get a flashlight and find the hash mark on the back of the sprocket and time it correctly. Cross fingers that there's no valve damage.

 

Helped a local guy who timed his incorrectly off of the marks on the center timing cover. Once timed it fired right up. Not sure if there's consensus on whether the arrow mark creates a collision in there or not.

[Fairtax4me]

Hard to say of the valves will be Ok. Likely since the valve timing is advanced (if the crank is 90° off as above) the valves would be OK. If the valves were behind timing I think they would be more likely to be bent.

[idosubaru]

130 psi is too low. 

[DanChas]

Hey Guys,

That was the ticket!  I pulled the timing covers off and hosed down the timing notches behind the crank pulley and there it was.  'The Hash Mark'  was right where you said it would be and after I got the covers back on, the engine was purring like a kitten after about half a turn on the starter.  

Thanks for the help!!

[subnz]

what a shame you did all of this, in my opinion you should have thrown this motor in the recycle bin instead of the manual and found a suitable replacement EJ22

this is what i would have done  these EJ25Ds have a bad history ie internal headgasket leaks,  overheating / engine component damage.etc

anyway well done and good luck

Edited March 3, 2016 by subnz

[AdventureSubaru]

what a shame you did all of this, in my opinion you should have thrown this motor in the recycle bin instead of the manual and found a suitable replacement EJ22

this is what i would have done  these EJ25Ds have a bad history ie internal headgasket leaks,  overheating / engine component damage.etc

anyway well done and good luck

 

Most of us are in full agreement that the Ej22 is the superior motor. I think our understanding of the EJ25 DOHC is catching up though. When heads are resurfaced and correct gaskets (Or turbo) are used the repeat failure rate seems to be declining.

 

I think half the problem is the motor design itself with failing gaskets and weaker rod bearings. The other half is the fact that so many overheat and wear on the bearings and block/heads that the heat sets them up for future failures down the road.

 

The DOHC is not a bad motor by itself. Half of it's infamy is that it came into play alongside the bullet proof EJ22 (And that was following the EA81 and EA82s) so when you're used to subarus lasting 300k consistently without any real engine work, you get blindsided by anything happening before 150k. We're kinda spoiled by how reliable they usually are. Find me a Kia that lasts that long though....

 

Seen a number of 250k+ EJ25 DOHCs. While I prefer the EJ22 for it's durability and simplicity, the EJ25 is still a perfectly decent motor. The OP will likely get many many more miles out of this one before it needs much else.

[DanChas]

After I installed the new head gaskets and torqued them down, I added a very small extra tweek to the torque to make sure these gaskets hold up.

I'll keep the site posted just in case there are any problems found down the road.  

If I were to change out the motor, I'd definitely change to an EJ22 just for the peace of mind.

Thanks for all the very good advice.  I own all Subies and plan to continue as my experience with them has kept me alive when the weather got out of shape, ie. high winds and downpours.

I'LL BE BACK!!