Head Gasket Problems Still?

[Mary32]

My car as been leaking oil for a few years, just enough that I add a quart once a month. 2 months ago it started over heating. We went ahead ad redid the head gaskets and water pump (timing belt was good). We put the car back together and it is still overheating- nowhere as bad, but still not gonna cut it. There was some coolant spray on the passenger side of the block so we went ahead and replaced the radiator cap, thermostat, and re did the passenger head. We used the same gasket because things cost money, and I am poor. Got a wee bit better but it isn't there yet. The car does great till either you hit 80 mph, or you drive it for about 25 solid minutes, then the temperature rises, and over heats within about 3 minutes.

The gasket test says my car is fine, but it said that the first time (we then took it to a mechanic and he said it was the gasket-and when we took it apart there was noticeable warpage). 

 

Any thoughts you have would be great.

[Bushwick]

Where the heads reworked to remove the warping? 

 

If you run tap water in the cooling system i.e. add tap to coolant, deposits can build in the radiator just like they can on a shower head. Over years, they can limit the radiator's ability to cool the engine. 

 

Since you are getting hot after pushing the engine harder, it could be the radiator.

 

Do you live in a dusty area? Lots of dirt roads? The exterior fins can clog up if enough dirt/dust or pulverized gravel constantly packs in there or cakes up with the condensation. Under loads, it'll cause the temps to rise. Idle engine and it'll cool to normal. Can easily rinse the rows with straight garden hose water w/o the nozzle attached. Just as it exits the hose, is all the pressure you want, and avoid dragging the brass across the fins. You'll know if the fins are gunked up if the water exiting the opposite side of the radiator is dark and dirty. Once clear, move the hose slightly and keep at it. (hold hose to fins so water passes through the fins and exits other side) Sometimes the AC condenser can get filthy too.

 

It's "free" to rinse and takes maybe 15 minutes. I always rinse mine any times I'm messing with a radiator. To inspect the rows, the level needs to be a little low and with cap off, you can try and see if the tube row ends have calcium built up. Often, the very upper rows aren't as bad, it's usually the middle sections and below. If the edges have any mineral deposits, suspect the insides can be clogging or very least reducing efficiency.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Bushwick

[idosubaru]

when it starts overheating - if you turn the cabin heat on high and leave it on a few minutes - is it blazing hot or will it eventually cool down?

 

also - are there bubbles in the overflow tank when it's overheating and you let it idle?

 

is it loosing coolant over a period of time - like over 100 miles or a week does it loose any coolant?

 

tricky - a more solid diagnosis and repair in the beginning would have been helpful. 

 

ideally: 

1.  the heads need resurfaced (easily done by yourself)

2.  use new Subaru OEM EJ25 turbo headgaskets

[Mary32]

Youtube got smart for me and I learned more about using the blue fluid kit to check block leaks. My block comes off as clean, and if I test the exhaust it goes yellow. My machanist is awesome and reliable and tested for integrity in the engine and blocks and said it is fine. I don't know what this means.

 

I had the head resurfaced by a machinist who owns the machine that Subaru dealers use. C and T auto in Orem Utah is great- just had to put a plug out there for him. I will check the radiator, that is a good idea. I don't use house water, but maybe the previous owner did. The radiator is after market, maybe that is a part of it (I don't think so cause it worked fine or 3 years, but who knows). Long after I got it I realized that it had been in a significant accident that was covered up, at the front drive bumper (Welding marks, aftermarket radiator, the frame is shifted 1/4 in, front drive break pads don't wear anything close to even, etc- I don't think this is a problem with the over heating though, because again, I have had it 3 yrs no probs).

 

     So the when it starts overheating is a more complicated question.

Before I fixed anything I would drive, it would be jolly, the heat would be on cause it was winter, and then it would start to overheat. It would overheat within 3 minutes. When this first happened I could go 15 miles before it over heated. When I accepted this was a real problem (don't judge, I didn't know much about cars) I could go 1. So we had the heads resurfaced and replaced the gaskets. You could see the warpage on the driverside head (that one appears to be just fine now). 

     I thought this would fix my life, but it didn't. Now my car does pretty well, but not good enough. Before we fixed the head gasket it bubbled, now it does not bubble in the overflow tank. I sat there and messaged the upper radiator hose with the car on for half an hour. I got one or two bubbles out. About the same time as the fans kicking on (Which never turn off btw) I started getting bubbles consistently. This happened around the time that my car starts to over heat.

     My heat used to be jolly, but since replacing the heads it will get pretty warm, but not real hot. It doesn't do as well as it used to. It does start kinda warm and get to rather warm like a typical car gets better heat after the engine warms up.

    It is hard to say weather or not it is losing coolant, I don't get to drive it all to far. Before we did the passenger head a second time there was definitely new coolant puddling on top of the engine block, but since we redid that head it hasn't comeback. I cant tell weather or not it is leaking out the bottom- my car has just seen way to much freaking fluid in the past 2 months. 

    I am concerned that maybe we damaged that gasket, but it looked good to me when we redid it.
 

I think I will take it to a mechanic- I just wanted to see if yall had any ideas that didn't cost more time and money.
 

[1 Lucky Texan]

bad/incorrect thermostat ? if it mostly happens at stop lights or at idle, confirm radiator fans are fully functional/not intermittent.

[Mary32]

Thermostat is new

[1 Lucky Texan]

Thermostat is new

what kind?

 

 

[Mary32]

Pretty sure that it is the after market- but I ain't pulling it out to check. Think it would make that big a difference?

So during the weekend I took the old thermostat and cut it in half than put it in- bypassing the thermostat. I didn't have time to do much driving, but it will go for 20 min just fine. I bled the system, and it does keep getting bubbles- so there has to be a leak somewhere. It takes about 4 times as was normal, but it will eventually start to blow warm air. Unless, however, you go pretty fast it doesn't get real hot. Just decently warm.

 

Was talking to the OReily fellow- he is pretty good at cars (coming from someone who really didn't know anything 3 months ago). He thinks that maybe since we had to change the passenger gasket twice it ruined it?

[Mary32]

Breaking news update. I spent forever driving around surface streets today, just to see what my car would do. I can sometimes hear either small bubbles, or small leaking sounds (not sure which). The amount of bubble sounds goes up directly proportionate to how far down the gas peddle is pushed.

[idosubaru]

You removed and reinstalled the same headgasket?

 

It sounds like headgaskets. 

 

If it's not leaking coolant anywhere - then it's likely the headgaskets.

 

You can just remove the tstat if you want to rule that out - you'll have to cut it (hopefully an old one if you have it) though as you'll need the extenral ring to hold the oring that seals the thermostat housing.   Someone here can probably mail you an old one for cutting. 

[idosubaru]

What year, vehicle/engine are we talking about here?

 

If it's a 2000+ and you go to do the headgaskets again: 
1.  resurface the heads (for proper finish, not just for flatness)

2.  use SUbaru EJ25 Turbo headgaskets - they're a better gasket and work on those engines. 

 

 

you said previously the head was "warped" - frankly these engines (though I'm sort of guessing which engine you have since you've never said engine/vehicle) - never warp the heads.  if the head was legitimately warped then that suggests the engine was severely overheated previously, which is never a good thing. 

[DaveT]

Sounds like headgaskets. Re using a headgasket. .. asking for trouble. From what I have seen on this new generation forum, it is very similar to my experience with EA82 engines- if the coolant gets low, for any reason, and the temp Guage goes above normal, head gaskets are damaged. A bunch of variables effect how badly. But the point is, it is too late. You can't use the temp Guage to monitor the cooling system for level, or leaks. You have to check the level in the overflow, air in the upper hose, and that the tiny fins are attached to the tubes in the radiator core regularly. The 1st 2 a lot more frequently than the 3rd.

[Mary32]

2002 Subaru Impreza Outback.

Alrighty-kinda embarrassing, but I we figured it out. Figured I would share the stupid mistake, in hopes someone else can learn from it.

Somewhere in the process of having the heads resurfaced and the block tested the Strait Pin got damaged. So we filed it down so that the head would still slip on. This of course changes the torque specs, and so I still had leaks at the gasket. New pin was under 4$. Got it fixed now. Thanks-ya'll are jolly.

This site had good help for strait pins.

http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/9611/what-to-do-with-damaged-alignment-dowels-in-block

[vtwinjunkie]

ideally: 

1.  the heads need resurfaced (easily done by yourself)

 

 

 

Please elaborate? 

 

I Might need to do this and would like to save money over sending to a shop for this part. 

[DaveT]

Search for "post apocalyptic head resurfacing"  or something close to that.  It's a big thread.  I've done it, it works.