LeolaPA Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I have a 99 Legacy with an interference engine. The cogged idler pulley failed. All the bearings fell out, and the timing belt is not lined up correctly. The bearing failed either when my daughter arrived home or just before then, and she shut it off, so it's possible that some valves got bent. I got a new cogged idler, and I want to install it so that I can check the compression. I know that I need to get the cam pulleys lined up so that the valves are all closed. I also need to get the crank into position so that all the pistons are safely away from the valves to get the cams in the right spot. Is there anybody who can give me a link to information that will help me? I have the Haynes manual, but that doesn't help with this problem. Information about the earlier engines that were not interference will not be helpful. I need info on this particular motor. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subnz Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/engine/timingbelt.pdf Replace EVERYTHING particularly after a failure like this (it probably means that everything else is worn out and needs to be replaced as well) like T/belt (even if it looks ok), toothed idler, two plain idlers , tensioner / idler, oil seals on camshafts /crank shaft and replace water pump (as all this needs to be removed to do w/pump anyway) A full kit to do this only costs about $200. It is fool - hardy / false economy not to do this. IF you need to be talked through this there are heaps of subaru cam belt replacement video demonstrations on you-tube as well. so look this up as well. Edited March 19, 2016 by subnz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Basically, turn the cams to where the valves are closed, no pressure on the cam gear and then you can turn the crank until the index mark on the back tooth of the crank gear lines up with the tick mark under the crank sensor. When you have the crank set, line up the cams. When you compress the belt tensioner do it slowly and so it's in the same position as installed - vertical. Turn everything over by hand several times to check for interference. If it's good, start her up. Then put a dollar bill up to the tail pipe, if it gets sucked back to the pipe, you have a bent valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/engine/timingbelt.pdf Thanks for the link. I have the newer tensioner in my car. I do plan on replacing everything. First step though, is to temporarily put on the new idler so that I can check compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Basically, turn the cams to where the valves are closed, no pressure on the cam gear and then you can turn the crank until the index mark on the back tooth of the crank gear lines up with the tick mark under the crank sensor. When you have the crank set, line up the cams. When you compress the belt tensioner do it slowly and so it's in the same position as installed - vertical. Turn everything over by hand several times to check for interference. If it's good, start her up. Then put a dollar bill up to the tail pipe, if it gets sucked back to the pipe, you have a bent valve. I suppose that I can turn the cams and if a valve hits a piston, I can turn the cam pulley the other way until the valves close. I'll give that a try this morning. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Got the cam pulleys at the right place I believe. After cranking them with the rachet, they eventually got to a place where there is a lot of free play. Taking a quick break then going back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Once I got the cams to the place where all the valves were closed, I couldn't tell if the crank was on the compression stroke or on the exhaust stroke because all the valves were closed. I tried to hook up a spark plug to the #1 wire, and I turned the engine by hand with the key on, but the spark plug would not spark. So after doing some looking at books, etc. I realized that the #1 cylinder would be on the exhaust stroke if I turned the cam half a turn. I did that, and no compression, so I knew from that which was the compression stroke and which was the exhaust stroke. Managed to get the belt back on, and did a compression test. Got #1 177 #3 190 #2 170 #4 185 From that I though that there was a chance that there might not be a horrendous bent valve. (Although I'm sure there is still a chance that maybe there was) I put plugs in and the car started and ran. There was no ability to put a dollar bill behind the exhaust pipe because I think the exhaust was blowing out pretty well. So now I need to digest what I have, and decide about the next steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 If it runs ok, just run it like that. Yea some of the valves probably bent but if it's not missing or throwing a code it will be just fine... My brother ran a 16V Kia engine that had a broken belt, and it ate all the valves since he said it sounded like marbles when it let go... But stuck a belt back on that car and it still ran ok for another 50k miles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 If you had any bent valves compression numbers would be under 100 on at least one cylinder. Compression is good, it runs smooth, its fine. Replace the other timing parts and keep on driving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 If you had any bent valves compression numbers would be under 100 on at least one cylinder. Compression is good, it runs smooth, its fine. Replace the other timing parts and keep on driving! I have the parts coming in the mail. In the mean time, I'm going to retest the compression with a warm engine (it was cold when I did what I posted above) and see how it runs and see how the numbers compare. I talked to a mechanic today who told me how the exhaust would sound if there was a bad valve. I might even do the leak down test. I was just so prepared to tear the heads off, that it seems too good to be true that I might not have to do that!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joomanburning Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If its a manual, make sure the belt guard over the crank gear is set at proper clearance. If too close, it will shred the belt from the backside at a likely inconvenient time. Several timing belt kits, including the one from Gates, come with a spacing gauge. If automatic, disregard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 If its a manual, make sure the belt guard over the crank gear is set at proper clearance. If too close, it will shred the belt from the backside at a likely inconvenient time. Several timing belt kits, including the one from Gates, come with a spacing gauge. If automatic, disregard! It's Automatic. I'm getting the parts from an Ebay seller who sells all OEM parts, actual Subaru belt, etc. Here is what I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111942379109?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joomanburning Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 That's the good stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share Posted March 25, 2016 Update on this: I ran the motor to warm it up. It sounded pretty good. I put a vacuum gage on it and got 20 inches with just a slight vibration of the needle...pretty steady. I retested the compression with the warm motor. I got: #1 205 #3 200 #2 185/190 #4 192/182 (battery was getting weak turning over for the last test.) So I'm assuming that the valves are OK, and I'm going to do all the part replacement this weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joomanburning Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Your valves are just fine!! Another way to tell for sure is to check valve lash. If any are bent the lash will be well beyond the specs. It's a 99 so it should have solid adjusters. Your compression suggests you're ok though. Anyway, once your done you might check lash anyway. Specs and what not in article below. http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/engine/overhaul.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 Your valves are just fine!! Another way to tell for sure is to check valve lash. If any are bent the lash will be well beyond the specs. It's a 99 so it should have solid adjusters. Your compression suggests you're ok though. Anyway, once your done you might check lash anyway. Specs and what not in article below. http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/engine/overhaul.pdf Thanks! That's a nice document. I couldn't find the valve clearances in the Haynes book, so this is really helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 For a last confidence booster I bought the Harbor Freight leak-down tester. All the cylinders tested the same, which was in the green 20% area. So I had good confidence that the valves were OK. I did set the valve lash. It seemed like most of the exhaust valves were good, which is nice, since they are harder to access. I did have to tighten a couple of the intake valves. None was drastically out. I took off the oil pump to replace the front seal, but that was a disaster. I overtorqued one bolt, and had to buy a helicoil kit to fix that. It's really a lot of work to take that off, get it all clean, re-apply silicone AND put in a new oil seal (without the little seal popping out). It is very easy to distort the new engine seal during reassembly of the oil pump also. I did that....had to take it all off and redo it. I found it easiest to put the timing belt on by gettting everything in position and then mounting the tensioner last. Couldn't get the belt on with the tensioner in place...even with the pin in the tensioner. I have the newer style tensioner. Also...this engine uses a idler pulley with a back flange. Probably necessary because the plastic pulley on the cam shaft does not have a back flange. My seller and I had to swap pulleys for me to get the correct one. It's all back together and running now. Thanks for all the help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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