'01 outback 2.5AT, VDC offroad/ overlanding build

[scalman]

Or you need more torque to wheels and car will move thats with low gear and traction control. Subaru wont move because its just dont have that. Vdc stops wheels that in air or just spins them slowly and it would spin those other 2 that have grip if it would have just more torque to do so but it dont have. 

Not all hills tracks can be done just with going fast thats just not possible and too dangerous some places you just need to do it slowly and there your old subaru wont work where someone with low gear ant tc will. 

[scalman]

Rear links just not made for longer travel as they go twisting to other side . and that top link is holding everything most. But its enough for 5cm spacer on top strut but not more.

Just imagine how all those bushings are tortured when weel goes down and everything twist all those bushings are allways twisted.

[el_freddo]

8 hours ago, scalman said:

Just imagine how all those bushings are tortured when weel goes down and everything twist all those bushings are allways twisted.

If you haven’t already, it’s necessary to loosen the tension on the bolts of these bushes, then put the car back on the ground to let the bushes sit at the changed ride height, then nip up all the nuts/bolts at the new height. 

This allows the bushes to sit naturally without excessive tension on them all the time. If not done, the bushes will flog our very quickly! 

Cheers 

Bennie

[scalman]

 

I mean that way they all twisted

Edited May 2, 2019 by scalman

[pontoontodd]

What Bennie said is right, you want those bushings to be as relaxed as possible at ride height, that will help your articulation and bushing life.

The real limitation though is that two of the lateral links are much shorter than the CV axle so it pulls the axle into the diff at droop.  The best fix would be to make different frame mounts and make those two links longer to reduce CV plunge and bushing flex/twist. 

I did make a set of lateral links slightly longer than stock using the stock mounts to get a little more droop before the CV bottoms out.  If you make them too long the CV pulls out of the diff.

You can get over almost all obstacles with more speed and momentum.  I'm not saying that's a good idea with your car but it virtually always works.

[scalman]

another my test of VDC in sand with diagonals so its 1 or 2 wheels just in air or have no traction. after some time torturing it coolant did overheated went over 100 degrees celcious so with that VDC turned off as seen in end video, but all in all it depends how good brakes working and how fast they can brake wheels because VDC uses brakes but  if they dont works perfect then VDC wont work good i guess

and at about 3:12 wheels dont spin but  car dont move as well. thats when VDC does that wierd thing that it cuts engine power so car cant even move or cant spin wheels for some reasons. 

and i thought putting back front say bar is good idea to make car feel better on road, well not so much...this just happened, and look what position that sway bar sits , car was on flat ground there so its not good, i need custom or longer links there, those original ones just dont work first time i go to some diagonal it just brakes. it happened before same thing

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by scalman

[scalman]

So what causes loud whine kinda sounds and some vibration with it? Vibration comes to gas pedal with speeds 90km/h and more . more speed more vibration on pedal and wheel .

So its

Tires

Bearings

Axles

But could lift or wheel spacers help that sound appear as axle working on diff angle

Changed front wheel bearing and rear on passenger side. Change tire places from reat to front. Same . changed axles rear both sides to other ones. Same.

Is it just tires become loud as they wear now some? 

But then vibration on pedal what that causes? Some say could be axle cv one of front ones inner one .

Dont have any summer or other silent tires to test if its tires. 

[idosubaru]

18 minutes ago, scalman said:

So what causes loud whine kinda sounds and some vibration with it? Vibration comes to gas pedal with speeds 90km/h and more . more speed more vibration on pedal and wheel .

So its

Tires

Bearings

Axles

But could lift or wheel spacers help that sound appear as axle working on diff angle

Changed front wheel bearing and rear on passenger side. Change tire places from reat to front. Same . changed axles rear both sides to other ones. Same.

Is it just tires become loud as they wear now some? 

But then vibration on pedal what that causes? Some say could be axle cv one of front ones inner one .

Dont have any summer or other silent tires to test if its tires. 

Vibration under load (when hitting the gas pedal) is often front diff or front inner axle joint. whining is more typical of diffs than axles.  But given it’s lifted and has age id consider those inner axle joints. 

Sometimes the inner joints can be made to exhibit symptoms if while facing up a steep slope on a road, from a stop, with the steering wheel turned all the way - floor it.

Wheel bearing - does it sound like it’s on the left or right?  Is one side hotter than the other after driving? Does the noise change if you turn the steering wheel while it’s making the noise?  Does either front wheel have play?

Edited May 8, 2019 by idosubaru

[scalman]

well how i find vibration is on cruise control on fixed speed, so i go with it and i slightly touch gas pedal and its vibrating. 

so front axles CV's could be tested full wheel turn and try drive on circles . go it . i think they not making any sound that way . 

plus im using 25mm wheel spacers, i duno maybe all louder sounds started with those wheel spacers there. but not sure. 

and then wheel itself vibrating more with speed

ohh my steering rack inside has play so my both front wheels have some play and driver sine is more. but is that reason for sound ? dont think so for vibration ? could be is it ?

but virbation comes allready from like 70km.h speed and thats not fast 

tires bfg ta ko2 they not silent but in past they wherent making that kid sound.

vibration is in front but whine sound in rear. at least it seems rear. well its not comfy for passengers when i drive them and i do that quite often. no prob for me or my partner as i put loud music and i dont hear sound, but with passengers they complain and i hear that myself too. 

so front bearing was changed to new, rear bearing changed to used one OEM. but its was in ok condition and one ive pull out was not ing doo condition. still after changing sound stayed same. 

tried diff psi in tires , still same sound. 

and its not one line sound its like wu-wu-wu-wu sound just and high speed its become as one sound still i can hear that kinda vibration sound, like something its not balanced or off balance. 

 

[scalman]

so front sway bar link on passenger side broke so i removed just that one and looked how it goes on angles with just one side connected

top on flat ground, then both sides one by one and it touches that arm when flexes on passenger side so it would make knock noise if i would do some driving with diagonals. 

cant dissconect both ends because then its nowhere to put sway bar and keep it safe. and with my lift and original links its just doesnt hold. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by scalman

[jf1sf5]

In my opinion, your vibrations come from the front inner CV's. You should add a body lift or lower your strut lift.

And take the sway bar out...

Edited May 12, 2019 by jf1sf5

[scalman]

inner CV yes i thought that too, but 2'' lift on those cars is normal and people who done same didint complained of vibrations, so maybe just my CV's need to be changed or one of them at least. 

i was going long time without sway bar but now i thought ohh maybe it will fix my vibrations in front, but it  didint so yh i will take it out again i guess. i need to take out that sterring rack and look at it can i tight that bolt or not , then i need to look other steering rack even used one but without lossenes.

and that whine noise in rear , i changed that bearing to used one from scrapyard, so what a chance that i put just bad one , now im thinking of that everytime i drive ,im trying to hear something new i try different speeds and such and im thinking what could it be. 

if i lift one side rear and put it on drive and it will spin that one wheel will i hear anything that way ?  someone said lift it all car in air and try then but subaru AWD system wont spin all wheels if car will be in air , will it ? im just thinking that noise shouldnt be there and there must be the way to fix that. but again can tire alone make that noise if its slightly wrong in camber, in alignment center they said that camber is slightly off but not like too much. i duno, like why noise changes depends how many weight is in rear like with full rear seat people i think its whines louder. 

today i drove and i thought its kinda loud even on 60km/h speed. 

[pontoontodd]

You seem obsessed with wheel articulation, get rid of your sway bars, I didn't realize you still had them.

If you put the car on stands or a lift it should drive all four wheels.  If you can put it on a lift that might be a good way to figure out where the noise is coming from - rear diff, wheel bearing, CV, etc.

[1 Lucky Texan]

duh, I shoulda thought of that

yeah, I'm with p'todd  - dump the antiroll bars.

Edited May 13, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[scalman]

i was going without them for long time until now. just put front one for week maybe and brake that link right away, my point was make car more stable maybe on higher speeds. im just trying to find problem with vibrations and whine so i could enjoy still longer trips on higher speed. now i think my rear trailing arm bushings went off and maybe on both sides as i have sounds of kinda rubber moving or sliding from place to place. so those didint hold very long as i changed one maybe 1 year before or about that. 

saw people puting there some whiteline or similar stuff that comes from 2 parts and no need pressing inside it . but does that holds longer , is that worth it. problem is that i cant press those myself yet...dont have tool 

[1 Lucky Texan]

many companies offer stronger end links. I have some Kartboy on my WRX.

I would think the type with spherical mounts could work well for you.

Perrin has some, probably others.

 

 

[scalman]

yes and many companies that you or others naming that i know not here localy . and sending such small stuff would cost me like more then part itself its not worth it. so im stuck what i can find localy .

i dont think i need just stronger end links i need them longer too. and i have localy stronger links this type 

and i need other kind , but maybe i dont even need sway bars as iv been driving without them for long time now. 

if when you braking front or moving from stop or going backwards from stop and using brakes you hear some kind of metalic click sound like something moved while you changed directions rapidly this must be front lower bushing is it ? i had those before going bad and i put some cheap ones i guess bad quality china ones but good thing that they easy to replace at least. 

so now im looking for 

rear ones
20254AE03A 
and front ones
21067GA050

Edited May 13, 2019 by scalman

[1 Lucky Texan]

if you can not locate a bad bushing, I might suspect brake pads moving back and forth.

 

can someone listen outside the car while you shift it back-and-forth?

[scalman]

I thought brake pads so i checked them on both sides and they not loose. And this wasnt before it just appeared at some point. When i was removig rear axle and disconnected all links that trailing arm just fell down meaning bushing parts where separated

And for front ones checked brake pads too and no loose there. And its not doing it every time just when i stop and start to move. Then after i move forward and if i brake no sound.so i guess lower bushings.

But wierd problem that i cant find those i need on local shops now wow thats lame subaru support there.

[scalman]

i maybe asked this but again about overheating... so weather is warmer with that not first time i overheat my car in some offrady stuff , well any stuff that car need to go for longer period of time on low gear and high revs , now idrove via sand and it went over 110  celcious after some 15-20 min of driving not just straight sand roads but some harder places and its jumps overheating all over , VDC turn off because that , well its hot there.

so now whats become hot and why ?

Coolant 

Engine oil

Gearbox oil ??

coolant level was ok today and oil was ok too in engine. in gearbox seems to be ok too its hard to measeure it properly as when to do that cold or hot . so not sure maybe in gearbox its too much oil though.

could too much oil cause overheating ? too low i know but today i was on good levels. and its just when you push harder , then you drive for longer on straight road and its come back to ok temp.

ohhh fans seems to be spining ok both ... well i think they do 

problems i have allready :

oil leak seems to be head gaskets. it goes for long time allready but now it became larger problem it just leaks everyday, or more like everytime you leave car after driving so it leaks untill it gets colder. because its all ways same amount oil to leak not more not less.

smell of burning oil while driving or while stopping after long drive but thats just oil burns on exhaust i guess as i removed all covers from exhaust.

and then what about some air in system . can air come to gearbox oil system when you removing radiator and disconnecting those 2 tubes that goes into gearbox ?

maybe air in coolant system ?

coolant pump ?

what else ?

what things first to check or change without removing engine ?

is it just overheats because head gaskets bad ? can it do it just because that ?
after time coolant and oil levels go lower as they leak i think but coolant not so fast , oil faster.

so now car kinda cant drive any off road roads more harsh or digging in one place because its overheats fast 

what factors cools down engine when you not moving since radiator then not cooling itself with air ? its that other vent ? 

so engine overheats because gearbox overheats or gearbox not overheat ? i mean we dont have gearbox temp do we ? so its same system then ? 

Edited May 17, 2019 by scalman

[pontoontodd]

Sounds like head gaskets.

Does it overheat when driving on normal roads?

What is the ambient temp when it's overheating?

Can you bring the temps back down by running the heater?

After it cools down, can you add coolant to the radiator or is it full?

If it's convenient, watch the coolant temp from the ECU.  The gauge uses a different sensor wire and it basically sits in the middle from about 140F-190F.

When it starts to run hot, pull over and leave the engine running.  The radiator fans should both be on.  They should be blowing fast too, there are two sets of windings and both need power for them to run at full speed.  It's possible you have a blown fuse or bad relay.  The next thing to check while it's hot and idling is to pop the cap on the overflow bottle and look for little bubbles coming up from the overflow tube.  If there are bubbles it's almost definitely head gaskets.  You can also get a head gasket leak checking kit.  There are probably a thousand forum threads about Subaru head gaskets.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I'll offer some thoughts;

the hydraulic pressure on the trans side of it's coil is higher than coolant pressure - is it POSSIBLE for coolant to get in the trans? yeah - but more likely for trans fluid to get in radiator. Very ,very uncommon failure from my years of reading Forums.

debris,dead bugs, dried grass,etc, trapped between a/c condenser and radiator is not uncommon on older soobs. Probably MORE common when driven off-road a lot.

maybe try downshifting to keep rpms up? see if that helps bring temps down.

In our 03, I experienced overheating in high temps on a trip once, moderate cargo(suitcases) and 3 adults - temps 113 to 116*F (45-46*C) , temps creeped up on hills, cam back down to normal on the flats.

I guess extremes just tax the cooling system - maybe some kind of supplement radiator could help? maybe a supplemental oil cooler? (that also gives you more oil volume - not a bad upgrade)

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan

[pontoontodd]

12 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

I'll offer some thoughts;

the hydraulic pressure on the trans side of it's coil is higher than coolant pressure - is it POSSIBLE for coolant to get in the trans? yeah - but more likely for trans fluid to get in radiator. Very ,very uncommon failure from my years of reading Forums.

debris,dead bugs, dried grass,etc, trapped between a/c condenser and radiator is not uncommon on older soobs. Probably MORE common when driven off-road a lot.

maybe try downshifting to keep rpms up? see if that helps bring temps down.

In our 03, I experienced overheating in high temps on a trip once, moderate cargo(suitcases) and 3 adults - temps 113 to 116*F (45-46*C) , temps creeped up on hills, cam back down to normal on the flats.

I guess extremes just tax the cooling system - maybe some kind of supplement radiator could help? maybe a supplemental oil cooler? (that also gives you more oil volume - not a bad upgrade)

 

 

Ya, definitely check between condenser and radiator, that can get full of mud and debris and it's hard to see.

[scalman]

3 hours ago, pontoontodd said:

Sounds like head gaskets.

Does it overheat when driving on normal roads?

What is the ambient temp when it's overheating?

Can you bring the temps back down by running the heater?

After it cools down, can you add coolant to the radiator or is it full?

If it's convenient, watch the coolant temp from the ECU.  The gauge uses a different sensor wire and it basically sits in the middle from about 140F-190F.

When it starts to run hot, pull over and leave the engine running.  The radiator fans should both be on.  They should be blowing fast too, there are two sets of windings and both need power for them to run at full speed.  It's possible you have a blown fuse or bad relay.  The next thing to check while it's hot and idling is to pop the cap on the overflow bottle and look for little bubbles coming up from the overflow tube.  If there are bubbles it's almost definitely head gaskets.  You can also get a head gasket leak checking kit.  There are probably a thousand forum threads about Subaru head gaskets.

driving normaly no. even driving normalu off road like if its road and im going forward and not  stuck in one place its fine still. if i use like 1st gear more i mean its auto but you can feel which gear its using by revs, so if its on low gear or like stuck in sand mud of just torturing car for some reasons then its got hot fast , and like hot to 120 celcious even 

those numbers are from ecu from phone app torque so there i can see exact temp . and its like sky high... 

after its cools down coolant level same but didint checked for bubles.

i cant make it overheat in city or on normal roads it must be some torturing for it like stuck in place and spin wheels not moving just in place or similar.

im almost positive that my head gasket leaks they where before but now i got oil puddle small every day mean everytime i park car and when i come back next day or even same day later its oil on ground. i cant see back of engine but in front where is oil filter i saw before that oil sunks trough where head gasket sits about that place. 

not sure how else to check i got oil on frame more on rear part on engine that its hidden so i cant see that part after some time my exhasut header screws have oil on them like drops and they all oily and black too. oil filter getting oily too after longer time but i cant be sure where that come from .

will check those stuff that you both mentioned. thanks. i should do head gaskets anyway before people start to complain of my oil leaks on street.

[pontoontodd]

I wouldn't worry about the head gaskets.  If it's just leaking oil out of the engine, as long as you keep it full that's not really a problem.

I was thinking you had an internal head gasket leak where the cylinder pressure will push your coolant out, but if that was the case it would probably overheat during normal driving and you'd have to add coolant, so it sounds like you're good there.

Make sure both fans are running on high when you stop and it's hot (I think they turn on above 200F and turn off below 190F).  Also check for blockage between the radiator and condenser.  First thing I'd do would be remove the top radiator mounting screws (at least one of yours will probably break) and push the radiator back and take a look.  If it looks bad, drain the coolant, pull the radiator and clean it well.  If it's not going to be below freezing for the rest of the summer, just use filtered water for now when you refill the coolant.