scalman Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Question for roof rack. If steel one is so heavy meaning not much is left in it to carry , as subaru says only 80kg on roof bars. So maybe aluminum one then i mean would do still diy just buy aluminum tubes and find someone to weld it or make it on bolts. Would be much lighter but is it worth it? Someone did maybe here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Welding nuts should certainly keep people from stealing your lights! Do you have to worry about theft where you live? Magnetic could be convenient, you would have to be careful if you don't want to scratch your paint, from the mag base and the wiring rubbing around. I have seen a few people reinforce their roofs by adding something like a roll cage that attaches to the roof rack mounting area. It's a lot of work and takes up interior space. Aluminum isn't really lighter than steel for the same strength. I would avoid using a roof rack if you can, it raises the CG, might damage your car, gets in the way of tree branches, and your cargo is more likely to get wet or stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) about stealing stuff. well cheap lights nobody would take i guess or want to take. well yeah i know i don't like really need roof rack not in winter at least or spring until summer. its just some extra space to put some stuff that you no need or like spare tire. because now i drive without spare at all. i went all trip 5400km without spare tire ha. i mean icant sleep in car if spare tire inside trunk too. its just would be cool to try and weld roof rack and maybe sometimes use it when need . i would make flat one maybe for less drag and then make side frame as separate stuff. would be interesting to try at least to make it. so you say aluminum wouldn't be any lighter. ok then. maybe something like this just simple Edited January 8, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 You should really carry a spare tire! You can probably fit a 215 65 16 tire in the spare tire well, it might not sit down all the way and it's a tight fit going in and out, but better than not having a spare. Probably wouldn't take too much work to open up the spare tire well, it will only hit in a few spots and you could cut those out and rebuild them, you know how to do sheet metal work and it doesn't have to look good. If oversized, you could make a bracket to stand one up in the back. A few guys on here have made swing out tire carriers on the back of their cars too. At least take a compressor and tire plugs or at a minimum a can of fix a flat. I think just a wheel and tire assembly on your roof on rough roads could damage your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Ohh but i have lpg tank in spare tire space.i removed spare tire from trunk as ehen i needed space in trunk so i cant carry it and its really fine. Yes i have all tools in car all time and air compressor too and quick fix kits. Was thinking of rear spare carier as saw on some subarus. So what you saying is this setup with roof rack and spare tire its bad and dangerous and can damage car.? I dont think this person damaged his car ever from that. Maybe this simpler style Or this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I was talking about one of those swing out spare tire carriers like you've pictured. I think putting something as heavy as a spare tire on the roof and bouncing around off road might damage the roof but maybe not as slow as you drive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Well sure with bouncing that spare tire carier could fell off .So today i got stuck in forest about 10 km from home. Was trying get myself out myself couldnt, then asked uncle to helo but he just had ford transit van. He came but couldnt do nothing almost get stuck himself.It was muddy road half frozen because cold but one side was soft mud and i got there with front wheel.and all car liy down on belly now on half froszen half soft mud.I left car was getting dark and i needed go to work night shift later .so i left car i middle of nowhere. Driver side car is in mud almost until door. Other side on ok track. Didint had any ppl i know with heavy truck or tracktors or 4wd. So that bad. Tomor will try to get car somehow out. But so much problems when no car.My solutions:1. Look someone with bug lift 4wd and ask him to get me out.2. Look who have tracktor and ask him.3. Buy some hand recovery gear and go try to get out car myself with hi-lift maybe.Problems:Dont know noone with heavy jeeps around. Dot know anyone with tractor around.Normal cars wont pull me out of there .If tomor will freeze and that mud become solid what will i do .Hope nooe will touch ny car there. (Car sit on exaust tube which brake or separated somewhere because now its sound loud. Hopefully no more damages.Driving alone..dont go to places you think are bad. I got there passed 3 times ok . then i wanted try go more on side. Was mistake. now what i learned from that. i tried to dig up mud and tried lift car at least one side and put some small trees under wheels. and that worked up for one side but other side was all in mud. and i had just folded but good shovel. and axe. and just small hidraulic lifter. which is enough to lift car from ground on solid surface but its doesnt work at all offroad. if i would had then hi-lift i would lift front of car enough to raise it from mud some and put some cut trees there. maybe would even got out . so my lifter was main problem. shovel was ok and axe too. and i found that now that i cut my front bumper and my recovery points are open its good point to lift car too. even with my small lifter i lifted it couple time by those points and all was fine. it was strong enough place to lift it. and i could even weld there something to make it more solid and good spot for good hi-lifter . so that stuff was missing. then again i could pull out car with hi-lift too. just need a lot ropes and chains and trees around. which i had . Edited January 9, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Is your car still stuck? You should be able to jack it up and put branches under the tires, sounds like you were doing that. Might have to jack it up on a big piece of wood so the jack doesn't sink into the mud. If you can't afford an electric winch (which you would have to mount and wire), you should get one of these: https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/bbf497dc-de27-4e06-a1e8-6bd6a7d4faf6/svn/big-red-engine-hoists-stands-tr8041-64_1000.jpg They are called winches, hoists, or come-a-longs, not sure what they call them in Lithuania. The dual toothed wheels like these have are better than the old ones with a toothed wheel on one side. If you look around you might be able to find one with solid toothed wheels, those are the best. Most are made up of a few stampings riveted together. It will take you a while but we used one of these to get my Outback out of a ditch a few years ago. The cable isn't very long, you will want to bring chain or heavy rope too. I have also heard of some wheel mounted winching systems but that is another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) yes my car still stuck in forest in mud. i left it there and went home because needed go to work.its about 10 km from where i live. so its there now and at night that mud might froze duno how it will be tomorrow. but i need to make rescue mission tomorrow with some cheap and simple things i could buy locally. yes im looking now at those hand winches , yes here they called just hand winches. so you think that 4t would be enough just one problem with them. it says cable its just 1.6m or 3m length . so cable is short . then i need some extra straps or maybe even chain. but i would prefer straps better. and they somehow cheap . well from 15 to like 45 euros. guess cheaper is worse. im just thinking will it be strong enough to pull out car. it says 4tons sure. just people talk trash about them . at least i found bad comments. car stuck there. and waiting now. i went there like 10 times back and forward and i thought its too easy ..and then i went more to left where noone did go. and i sunk. Edited January 9, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 It doesn't look hopelessly buried. I think you could get it out by jacking up one corner at a time and putting branches under the tires. It will take a while and some digging. I haven't done much with my 2002 but I think the radiator support on those is fairly strong, just watch if you jack up on that so it doesn't bend. Yes, I've used one of those winches, I think it was rated at 4 tons. You will probably want to use them like they are shown in those pictures so you have more pulling force. If you unhook that other hook and don't use the pulley you will get more length but half the pulling force. If you can get one with solid toothed wheels rather than the stamped and riveted wheels, they hold up better. If the winching goes slowly but doesn't require a lot of force you could try putting branches right in front of the tires and try to winch it up on them. You could try tire chains but if you can get them on you can probably just put branches under the tires and drive out without them. Take plenty of boards, shovels, heavy ropes, chains, or cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) It is bad burried. Its not pic from it stu ck but its in that place. Today took that simple come along 4t and more straps. Tried to pull car backwards but because its freezing now half mud frozen but that side its still wet because water runs there. So its sits on belly all lenght and that part is frozen as stone. But side that wheels are stu k is in halfsoft mud. So we tried to pull it out. And strap that was around tree broke.and it was 4t strenght. Come along not broke yet but car didint moved inch. Left again car there. Tomorrow will conti ue rescue it. What i think i need is to lift driver side which is all buried into mud its sits on skid plate . I need lift car so middle would free the. I could maybe pull it. But dont have any high lifter that could lift car so much so its come out of mud and even lift to air so i could put some wood under wheels. Proble. Is getting to driver side. Its sinked almost to door level. And worse part that it goes up hill from that place so it would need dig so much if try lift from side. Better would be dig from front and try to lift all front. Again strong and high lifter needed like hi-lift. I could put some small lifter and lift rear maybe but first and must is front becausr car sits downhill and its looks front downhill so all weight goes on front.but to lift front i need dig some there and i need to put lifter on some hard ground and on that side mud is soft and even water Edited January 10, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 What kind of jack do you have? With a good hydraulic floor jack or bottle jack if you dig out a spot for it you should be able to lift the car. If you can't lift it enough in one shot, stack blocks of wood or something under the car, lower the jack, stack some blocks under the jack, and do it again. Even if you had a hi-lift you probably have nowhere on the car to lift with it. Were you using the pulley with the come along like in those pictures? Do you have a decent chain or something that won't break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 No chain.well come along itself goes with pulley . and it didint brake just strap did. But car didint even moved because its sits on belly. And part that its sits on is not soft mud just frozen one its hard as ice. So i cant just drag car by force if its sits on belly. I could use hi lift from front. Just where are original recovery points there is pretty strong place. I was lifting there with small hidraulic lifter. Just it wasnt enough. See where problem is. If ilift. Ar just little with lifter that i have i cant put things nowhere. I cant do nothing from sides because sides sits till door almost and ground from door goes up hill so cant sdig there too. And from that hill water running down so its make there so messy place that i cant even stand there with my weight. But i can dif maybe that part in front and try lift car from front maybe put strong boards on mud and then put lifter on boards. I just need really strong boards.that they wont brake. Well or first put some trees then board on top. My all problem is car sits on belly because driver side sinking down. Car facing forward down hill but if i go forward i just go more into nasty soft ground. To go back i need oull car backwards but i cant pull now because all car sits on belly even engine part sits all almost till radiator. And all weight is on front. So if i lift some driver side thats it i could almost go out myself . problem is to dig there because ground goes up if i dig there ground just falls down again and with water. I thought it will freeze but its not freezing. Everything else there is frozen but that part under driver side car. So hmm duno. I have normal subaru lifter same as you had i think. And then i have another small in size hidraulic that i carry in car . its enough to lift wheel from ground with some boards . but not enough now to lift car from mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 some more thoughts of stuck car. because car sits in middle on frozen mud its not going more to side. but if i would start to dig that middle part then car would go more to side sink more even . still thats not saving me nothing. so until its sits on middle part its kinda wont sink more maybe. maybe if i put wood on mud in one place it will sink then put more and more on top in one place until its stops sinking then i could put lifter there and lift that side. i hope at least. but if i not have high enough lifter i wont lift car enough to put something under wheels. because wheels still will be in mud just little lifted. with high lifter i could i think at least that i could lift car in one go and thats it . i could put trees under wheels and car then goes up and middle part wont sit on mud means its free to go. thats theory at least. so if i bring again wrong tools to car i wont achieve much even if i dig much and stuff. its possible to lift car some ant then put there something so car wont go down. but i need hard ground for that and if i have mud around i dont have any hard ground. just that spot that i would make for lifter to stand. so thats problem i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm still not sure how you're going to lift your car with a high lift, but if you have one it would certainly be easier than a bottle jack. You should be able to get a 12 ton bottle jack for $20 or so. Yes, you will probably have to stack stuff under the car and prop up the jack and do it in stages. There are telescoping hydraulic bottle jacks too, you get more lift but they're more expensive and the second stage can't lift as much. By far the easiest solution would be to find someone with a tractor or big 4WD and beg or pay them to drive over there and pull your car out. If you do that or try the winch again I would pull on both tow hooks, especially considering your car is rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) mine is like that its mitsubishi and lifts more then my car weights . but not so high. so i tried with this one allready. well i put this one in front too. just were bumper is and where that metal peace goes along radiator. so its like from front. i could put hi lift there too and it would reach that spot. well longer bottle jack would help i guess. about pullling car out. yes its maybe simpliest way . but normal 4wd wouldnt come there too just lifted one. tractor. well i duno tractors around. and if tractor would need to drive like 15 km or more it just wont go that far. what i see its my car sits completely on middle its sits on mud. so if i drag car by force now i might brake something as well. thats if i pull car in front . might ripp off exhaust because car sits on exhaust completely. all exhaust from engine its on that mud pressed to cars body. if i just drag car it could rip off. where i live i dont know anyone with big 4wd mean lifted one. normal city 4wds wouldnt even go there. lifted 4wd maybe i saw in my city 1 or 2 . but i duno who those people are. car sits on middle on mud . hard mud not soft. its frozen. tried ti pull with come along and strap snapped meaning it dont wanna move . when i got stuck mud was all soft and wet. now most of it frozen. maybe that adds to problem too. but only one side of car is in mud drivers side. its now so burried that i almost cant open driver door. its just goes into mud straight away. and i cant dig there because ground goes up hill. and water runs from that hill down to that driver side. thats where mud is soft and full of water. all other mud is frozen. and will be more tomorrow. my idea was wait until mud frozen all and lift car on mud. but its not frozen all because running water non stop and that water not frozen yet. maybe it wont be ever. i mean i would put hi lift right there yesi dont have bumper for that but i dont need because in that place i could lift cars front at least some with it . i tried with my normal bottle jack and it worked . i mean i could lift car as much as that jack could but it was not enough. so my idea if i take hi lift and put it there. i dig some mud in that area around and put there trees and boards maybe so it wont sink and i would lift it. well i think so at least. or that hi lift dont have long enough hook to lift my front then its bad ... well for now i dont have any other jack lifter to lift car more up. and if that come along couldnt even move car an inch means something not letting it move. ok what i mean of using hi lift is like this i tried lift front of car like this with my bottle jack and it did in that same spot. it was strong enough spot to hold and to lift wheel from ground on that side. so hi lift should do that to im thinking Edited January 10, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) pull it out today with 2 my uncles and on extra car for some pull power. lots of digging mud and lots of lifting car and redoing it many many times until car got high enough to get some real traction. andexaust was ripped of because i tried pull car without lifting it so it was sitting on exhaust and just pulled it off. tube broke in 2 places but was easily to weld later back home. doesnt look like much there but it took good 2-3 hrs 2 men to dig and lift car and redoing it again and again because jack was sinking to mud , boards where sinking or going to side and such...lots stuff to do redoing it over and over. because small bottle jack and you need lots wood boards to lift car . 1 hi lift would do it in just one go i guess. and if you alone that would be so much helping . even with come along if your car sits on middle on hard surface and one side wheels in deep stick mud and other side almost in air doesnt have enough traction you wont go anywhere and pulling car off that without lifting it properly would just brake some stuff thats what i did. exhaust lowest point.. its gone. Edited January 11, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I'm glad you got it home with minimal damage. If you keep going solo you should figure out some better recovery method(s). The electric jacks and recovery ramps/sand ladders have worked well for me. Or get a winch and build mounts and wiring to put it on the front or rear of the car. Slow but effective if you're near trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) yeah as exhaust is lowest point and then if you sit hard on it it will force itself onto driveshaft and even into your rear diff side cv rubber and will brake it. as mine did. now need to change that cv rubber boot. all because i was pullling car with lifting it because someone told : ohh look its nothing we will pull this car out in second...later we snapped strap 3 times by trying it haha. so yh never do that again. lesson learned. and would be good to make that exhaust somehow not lowest point or make some secure stuff for it . just my bottle jack and come along would do job fine ..takes more time maybe but i could do it alone even with small shovel in car axe and some straps and cables. but hi lift would make lifting car so much faster and easier. and you can even pull car with hilift. again very slow process but its possible. and i drove that place many times before and did many times before got stuck..and thought its too easy and then felt for trap and stuck. its just so easy when your wheels have traction even in mud. when they loose it you just stuck in second. Edited January 11, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jf1sf5 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Happy you have recovered ! Now imagine you had a snow storm on top of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 i would love to have snow storm. not when stuck but in general. i love snow and love drive on it and explore places when lots snow. get out from snow is not that hard or dirty at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 very nice winter day -8 c and sun is shining. no snow just dry and ground is frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 yeah as exhaust is lowest point and then if you sit hard on it it will force itself onto driveshaft and even into your rear diff side cv rubber and will brake it. as mine did. now need to change that cv rubber boot. all because i was pullling car with lifting it because someone told : ohh look its nothing we will pull this car out in second...later we snapped strap 3 times by trying it haha. so yh never do that again. lesson learned. and would be good to make that exhaust somehow not lowest point or make some secure stuff for it . just my bottle jack and come along would do job fine ..takes more time maybe but i could do it alone even with small shovel in car axe and some straps and cables. but hi lift would make lifting car so much faster and easier. and you can even pull car with hilift. again very slow process but its possible. and i drove that place many times before and did many times before got stuck..and thought its too easy and then felt for trap and stuck. its just so easy when your wheels have traction even in mud. when they loose it you just stuck in second. When you do get a high lift farm jack, do yourself a favor & get some accessories for lifting. Its always easier to lift a corner with the wheel & suspension already compressed. This add-on puts 2 hooks around the wheel spokes to lift from car by the wheel & has a padded face to protect things. If you keep driving off road you may want to get some steel wheels so they don't get scarfed up from rocks etc. https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Lift-Wheel-3-Tons-6000lbs-Lift-Mate-Jack-Mate-for-Farm-Jack/351988414170?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Make a steel plate about a foot square(0.3 m x 0.3 m) with 3 holes drilled in same pattern as foot of high lift jack to bolt on. Having a bigger footprint for jack helps keep it from sinking. I have used this many times when stuck in soft sand in the desert - it really does help & saves time looking for flat rocks, etc for a jacking base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) yes i was thinking of that. just i wont "buy" hi lift kit . i could just add those stuff myself by separately and make something. in my situation now wouldnt be possible lift car from side at all just front and rear. but yes stuff to lift by wheel needed too. that wheel lift stuff could be made too not that difficult, just hooks as those wont go for my aluminum rim. something else could fit my rims maybe. some board could work too. or steel . steel more heavier i guess. and i think for outback is enough lowest hi lift model 48'' . i dont need 60'' do i ? tho difference in price here is just 7 euros. but do i need 60'' ? hmm even stuff like those then does chain is needed for some stuff or you could do all with straps only ? like for pullling i guess you need chains but they would add weight same as hi lift maybe. what about just strong strap or 2,3 of them. still would be lighter then chain. Edited January 13, 2018 by scalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalman Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 i think my engine runs better after i added this couple more people tested it here and told me they had good results too and better acceleration more alive engine and stuff. so i tried too. best way to use it with new oil while changing it , but i just added to my not so old oil , mixed it with some 1l original oil so it will mix better there inside . and after driving couple weeks i like my car more. its kinda more responsive or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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