96 Impreza Cranks, But Won't Start!

[G_Mossman]

My friends 96 Impreza with the 2.2L Non-interference engine had a timing component fail. We did a whole timing belt, waterpump, thermostat replacement on it. It also had leaky valve cover gaskets, so those were also replaced. We did a radiator and engine block flush.

 

Upon trying to crank it over after do all of this, the engine wouldn't start. It had strong crank from the starter. My brother informed me that I probably didn't time it right. So I redid the timing belt, even though I was 99% sure I did right the first time. But I extra made sure this time. Still nothing.

 

So I went to check the plugs. The spark plugs had huge gaps and were pretty gross from the oil leaking onto from the valve covers. I conveniently had an extra set. I threw those on. Still nothing.

 

I then swapped the coil pack from my 96 2.2L impreza. Still no luck. Then I checked the fuel system. I shot starting fluid into the throttle body as we cranked it over. It choked to life and then died each time. I checked for fuel pumping out before and after the fuel filter. Fuel came from each of those with strong flow. 

 

My next step is to investigate injectors, which I am not super familiar with. All advice is welcomed. 

[G_Mossman]

I've now checked the connections for about everything I can think of. I've checked all the fuses both under the hood and in the footwell.

[idosubaru]

There are two marks on the crank sprocket, it's easy to use the wrong one and think for certain you're using the right one since you're using "a mark" that looks right.

 

Did you use the dot or arrow?

 

You can google pictures of them.

 

Read your OBDII codes - what codes does it give you?

[idosubaru]

Subaru injector and fuel system failure is very rare, very unlikely.

[idosubaru]

You could also have bent valves from the timing failure.

 

1996 is noninterference and 1997 is interference.

 

Verify production date on metal stamp

 

96 & 97 are plug and play interchangeable.

If the engine was ever replaced or it's a bleed over 97 engine you could have an interference engine in a 1996.

[idosubaru]

Compression or leak down test would verify valve damage.

[1 Lucky Texan]

check that big hose from the IACV - easy to miss connecting it under the intake.

 

possible timing - never use the the arrow/triangle - use the dashed line on the tab at the back of the crank sprocket.

 

If one of those tabs was broken off - car won't start either.

[G_Mossman]

Gary: Definitely noninterference. I had the valve covers off when I did a manual crank through after doing the timing belt. The valves looked like they cycled properly and I could definitely feel the compression. But I still might do the compression test to verify.

 

Texan: I checked all the hoses I could think of. The ones on the whole intake system, the crank case breathers, the one for the PCV, etc. The weird part to me is that is doesn't even want to choke to life unless I spray in starter fluid. Usually a vacuum system issue causes the engine to choke out and die quickly. My brother (jmoss5723) thought maybe it was dieseling off the starter fluid and it's still an electrical issue. But that seems really unlikely since it's a cold engine and the compression ratios are that strong for that. Though I'm not even close to qualified to say that with confidence. Haha. 

 

Also, I did the timing twice, my brother also thought that I might have mistimed it. I used the Factory Service Manual to verify the proper timing marks. I counted the teeth on the belt. It all seems like it is in time. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

hmmm---if you cycle the key from OFF, to ON a few times, the fuel pump should run for a coupla seconds and fully pressurize the rails. Dot that cycle 4-5 times, then got to START. see if there's any difference. If it's better, maybe, for some weird coincidental reason, there is a fuel issue.

 

did all the gross oil-gunk get cleaned off the plug wire boots? maybe losing some high voltage energy with arcing in there.

 

if you think the system is flooded - try starting with your foot holding the gas pedal on the floor while cranking (don't pump) When the pedal is on the floor AND starting are detected by the ECU - it switches to a 'clear flood' mode and shuts-off the injectors. (but, I'd have expected a fuel smell from the tail pipe if it was flooded?)

[G_Mossman]

I'll try the key thing and see if that helps. I did get fuel to come through the fuel filter at a steady rate when engaging the starter. So if there is a fuel issue, it will happen after the filter. 

 

As for the boots. I wiped them, but I'll make sure to give them an extra good clean. If there isn't power coming to the plugs, its either be that all the wires are faulty, which would be insane, or there isnt power getting to the coilpack. I started investigating that, but didn't have time to finish tracking that down. Jamie thought it might be the igniter from doing some research but I don't know how to verify that it is working properly without just testing it with a voltage tester. 

 

The only fuel theory Jamie and I have come up with is a some sort of fuel air lock from the system being thrown out of time. But with the number of times trying to start the engine, I would I have thought the engine would have straightened itself out at this point. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

since we seem to be into the odd stuff now - you might scan for pending codes. clear the ECU, try to start, scan again for what code comes back.

[G_Mossman]

Yes we seem to be indeed. I won't be able to check these things until this evening. Ill update you guys as soon as possible with new information. If you have any other ideas of things to test before I get to this tonight. Let me know. 

[heartless]

easy way to check for spark is pull a plug, put the wire back on and using a pair of plastic tongs (like for a bbq, but all plastic) - or something else insulated... hold the spark plug to a good grounding point - a bolt head on the body works (i have done this against a strut mounting bolt). you should see a good, strong blue/white spark if things are working correctly.

 

i don't recommend holding the spark plug, or even the wire, in your bare hands... (go ahead, ask me why) LOL

[winginit]

did you ever figure this out?  if si,what did you find ?  thanks

[G_Mossman]

Sorry I've been busy with work and haven't had time to delve into this project. I checked the codes and got only one code back. P0335 code (Crankshaft Position Sensor). So I will swap out the good one from my 96 into his 96 and see if that clears it up.

 

I didn't think that would completely shut down the system. Do you guys think this is the sole problem?

[Fairtax4me]

No crank signal = no start.

No cam signal = no start.

[winginit]

i was reading this thread for info.  i got a po340 code .cam censor.  I pulled it and checked it with a multimeter and read no continuity , compared to a good one and  the reading was good,  i installed it and it fired right up.    

 

so pull the crank censor and test it.  thanks

[G_Mossman]

Hazzah! One of the wires to the plug to the crank sensor was severed. Not sure when, but it must have happened during the timing process. So now just need to fix that and we should be back in order. I'll inform once I get it taken care of. I will need to get some waterproof connectors and heatshrink tubing.

[winginit]

for me it was the cam censor i pulled it out and tested it and it was bad,  got another from JY for $20  BOOM  fixed.   fresh  coolant and oil change. 

 

the kid i bought it from was throwing parts at it.

 

he installed

 

timing belt and all tensioners

seals

water pump.

starter

coil

wires

plugs

cam gear pulleys

harmonic balancer ( i put a new gear and woodruff key because it was messed up)

belts

T-Stat

1 and 3 injectors.

also has brand new tires.

i bought it for $350 bucks  only 115k miles

Edited May 21, 2016 by winginit

[heartless]

you stole that car! LOL

[JT95]

A couple questions regarding this issue and having a bad cam or crank sensor. 

 

> Is it possible to have a bad crank or cam sensor and there be no codes thrown?

 

> Is it possible to have a bad cam or crank sensor and an engine start on occasion after much cranking?

[Fairtax4me]

The first depends on the year, but generally a bad cam or crank sensor will always set a code.

The second, yes, very possible with an intermittent failure of either sensor.

[winginit]

A couple questions regarding this issue and having a bad cam or crank sensor. 

 

> Is it possible to have a bad crank or cam sensor and there be no codes thrown?

 

> Is it possible to have a bad cam or crank sensor and an engine start on occasion after much cranking?

Yes and Yes.

 

Those censors are magnets wound with wire if a wire is broken it will touch when cold and expand after the engine runs and warms up.  shut it off and try to restart and nothing till it cools.  Eventually the wire will not touch and no more start.  Cam Censors are $65 at nappa for aftermarket.there is i sooby JY 10 minutes from my house i got a sooby part for $20.

 

The  guy told me they usually dont go bad but in the 90`s there was a bad run of them and subaru sent dealers a cam and crank in a pack just for the replacement.  he had a couple sets new but i bought the used one.  oh they were $60 for both new good deal, sooby parts too !

[winginit]

you stole that car! LOL

I know,  I told the girl i proly was going to fix it and sell it.  she was ok with it.    i actually whent to her house and was going to give her another $100. 

 

she is a dog trainer and i have a flat bed truck,  she asked me if i would go a couple towns over and pick up some kennel fence and poles for her. so i did and now i feel better.   i know $350 was low but i was taking a chance too, the car my have had blown HG.  she said it was overheating.  The kid that tried to fix it should have never opened the hood !

 

Oh yeah and a brand new Nappa Battery,  i wish i found these cars every day !

Edited May 21, 2016 by winginit

[winginit]

Also i change the O-rings in the AC system and charged it,  a nice steady 43 degrees.  some one is going to get a good car cheap.

 

i had a 95 sedan a couple years ago i sold it with 240k and it ran great.  i put firestone winterforce snow tires all around that was a beast in the snow i wish it was lifted.  i would  throw a chainsaw in the trunk and drive around in bad weather for fun,  if a tree was over the road i would cut it up and keep goin !