winginit Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) 1996 leagacy ej2.2 115k miles. the story of this car is in another thread . But we suspect HG failure . I pulled the heads this morning. Can i get some help as to what i am looking at please. it does look like the drivers side HG is kind of flaked away at the water jacket area and the same piston has a clean spot on it. could this be the culprit ? Overheating loosing cabin heat no oil / coolant mixing or tail pipe white smoke, overflow is boiling over. Do these Gaskets look original ? Should i get subaru gaskets? Also it was a bith getting the driver head out. what is the trick ? i pulled the valve cover should i lift the engine a little? what am i doing wrong. i dont think i could get the new HG in without screwing them up. that one bolt closest to the firewall in each side is a pain ! Edited June 8, 2016 by winginit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I don't think you had leak on at least that side. A cylinder that has a leak typically has been "steam cleaned". All the pistons and valves look about the same to me. Equal amounts of carbon build up/stuff on the valve faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Of the 2.2s i've done head gaskets one that's pretty much where they have all failed. They wont mix coolant and oil, they wont smoke, or at least not a huge amount. If they smoke at all its barely noticeable. The heads are very tricky to get out and back in while the engine is in the car. It does help to loosen the mounts and raise the engine. Remember to remove the pitch rod dogbone on top of the trans before you lift. The Fel-pro gaskets for that engine are the exact same as what you would get from a dealer, but at half the price. Even have the FHI logo stamped on them. Your dowel pins stayed in the block which is good. When you put the new gaskets on hang them from the dowel pins while you angle the head down into the engine. Also, those gaskets that are on it are not original. They've been replaced before. Be sure to have the head surface machined so you get the best chance for a good seal. Edited June 8, 2016 by Fairtax4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Fair. So to you it looks like the gasket let loose it that spot? Thanks for your help ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Good job getting it apart! Yes remove the two lower 14mm engine mount nuts and pitch stopper and jack the side of the engine up that you're working on. Subaru or fel pro gaskets and resurface the heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Also, clean up the block face. Most of the bad head gaskets I have seen don't show obvious signs of failure location. It only takes a tiny gap where the fire ring stopped sealing to the head or block to let high pressure combustion gasses into the coolant. I know some people replace them in the car, but I have not done that since the first head gasket job I did, on my 1974 wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Do I resurface the heads myself on a flat surface with sand paper or should I bring the heads to a machine shop ? What about all the pictures , the driver side gasket looks blown out on the inside by the 3 water wholes. I know I have to put it back together but I am hoping someone will say it does look blown . If u look at all the picks you will see one piston has a shiny part that's the same piston that the gasket is chipped away on . I also think the tiny particals I seen in the overflow coolant was gasket material. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Don't even think of trying it yourself. Send them to a machine shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Do I resurface the heads myself on a flat surface with sand paper or should I bring the heads to a machine shop ? What about all the pictures , the driver side gasket looks blown out on the inside by the 3 water wholes. I know I have to put it back together but I am hoping someone will say it does look blown . If u look at all the picks you will see one piston has a shiny part that's the same piston that the gasket is chipped away on . I also think the tiny particals I seen in the overflow coolant was gasket material. Thanks if by "flat surface" you mean you'll use sufficiently thick (3/8" i think) plate glass, proper granite, or machinist grade granite - yes do it yourself, excellent results and very easy to do. any glass shop in town can get you the plate glass. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122588-diy-head-resurfacing-or-post-apocalyptic-machine-shop-techniques/ i'd rather see the gasket/engine in person than pic's, but yes i do want to jump on the band wagon and say that head gasket looks like flaking junk and a specific failure point. the fire ring there looks the same all the way around? Don't even think of trying it yourself. Send them to a machine shop. lots of us do it ourselves, it's actually really easy and gives great results: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122588-diy-head-resurfacing-or-post-apocalyptic-machine-shop-techniques/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 if by "flat surface" you mean you'll use sufficiently thick (3/8" i think) plate glass, proper granite, or machinist grade granite - yes do it yourself, excellent results and very easy to do. any glass shop in town can get you the plate glass. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122588-diy-head-resurfacing-or-post-apocalyptic-machine-shop-techniques/ i'd rather see the gasket/engine in person than pic's, but yes i do want to jump on the band wagon and say that head gasket looks like flaking junk and a specific failure point. the fire ring there looks the same all the way around? lots of us do it ourselves, it's actually really easy and gives great results: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/122588-diy-head-resurfacing-or-post-apocalyptic-machine-shop-techniques/ I will look close paying attention to the fire ring. im gong to get the HG from the dealer i need manifold gaskets,valve cover gaskets and valve cover washers. i want to call a couple of machine shops and see how much and ask if they do it by hand . years ago i built a perfectly flat 30in by 8ft bench with cement footings on top of that is 9ft 1/2in glass so i am covered there. I also have good sttraight edge. but i may feel bette if i have it done, if the machine shop uses a machine i may let them do it. if they do it by hand i can do that. I used the table to build airplane wings. if any one lives close and needs to use the table they can come here and use it. with 2 lazer levels it is perfect, well last time i checked it it was! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Machine shop intake mine to charges $40 per head. But he uses a machine and usually does them while I wait. I've seen some shops that use stone type milling machines and the results are not usually very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yes, that area where gasket is missing is bad. I never had one that blown. Do the Subaru gaskets need to be re tourqued? Fel Pro permatourque don't. Intake gaskets get from Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 No need to call, a full on machine shop would never do that by hand - they'll probably squint their eyes and wonder what planet you're from for asking. If you want to be technical what you'd want to know is if they're using a belt sander, blanchard grinder, milling... and if they're changing the procedure based on type of gasket (composite vs. MLS) or materials - aluminum, iron, or aluminum/iron mixing (head vs. block) to get the desired RA of each combination. I would avoid a place that uses a belt sander. You already have a plate glass surface? that's awesome, I'd use that. But i can understand have a competent shop do it, I used to when I lived in Maryland and had acess to better shops. Here's a head/photo I had done a few years ago at a local machine shop: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/117657-rough-headgasket-resurfacing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Got the heads cleaned up, 004 gauge wont slide under a straight edge.. there is some slight pitting on one but its not in the same lace as the flaking gasket. local sooby specialist told me that ej2.2 heads and gaskets are very forgiving if they are not warped scrape with a razer blade . i did sand them on a flat surface. i am going to ick up the gaskets now. Edited June 10, 2016 by winginit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 It looks like there is some slight pitting around where the fire ring sits on the head at the top of that picture. Lay the new gasket on the head and draw a line with a permanent marker on the inside edge of the fire ring. Then remove the gasket and see how close that is going to be to the ring. If any pitting is directly under the ring that will cause it to not seal properly and you'll be doing it again. Either continue sanding until that puttin is gone or have a machine shop mill it down. Shouldn't take much, probably only .003-.004". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 i will check it. I forgot to ask before. i oil the head bolts . is it ok if some oil gets on the head gasket area during assembly ? Oh and the gasket i got from the dealer have what looks like a narrow bead of sealant ONLY on ONE side. What side does the bead go on ? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Do not allow oil to get on the mating surfaces or gasket. A few drops are all that's needed on the threads and put a drop on the washer at the top before tightening the bolts. Gaskets only go on one way. If you put it on backwards the oil feed port will not line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 I have the heads and block cleaned up. the engine mounts loose and lifted , head bolts wire wheeled clean. going to put the heads on in the morning . Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 It looks like there is some slight pitting around where the fire ring sits on the head at the top of that picture. Lay the new gasket on the head and draw a line with a permanent marker on the inside edge of the fire ring. Then remove the gasket and see how close that is going to be to the ring. If any pitting is directly under the ring that will cause it to not seal properly and you'll be doing it again. Either continue sanding until that puttin is gone or have a machine shop mill it down. Shouldn't take much, probably only .003-.004". It looks like there is some slight pitting around where the fire ring sits on the head at the top of that picture. Lay the new gasket on the head and draw a line with a permanent marker on the inside edge of the fire ring. Then remove the gasket and see how close that is going to be to the ring. If any pitting is directly under the ring that will cause it to not seal properly and you'll be doing it again. Either continue sanding until that puttin is gone or have a machine shop mill it down. Shouldn't take much, probably only .003-.004". j lucky the pitting is not near the fire ring part. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Well i got the new gaskets and heads on. raising the engine was key if not pulling it out. Also i pulled the valve covers off. And i learned the i can open the hood off the rod and push back by the windshield, . One head bolt seems stretched more than others can i just replace it or got to change the gasket again ? I am going to the Air show in RI Sunday so it will wait till monday. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Well i got the new gaskets and heads on. raising the engine was key if not pulling it out. Also i pulled the valve covers off. And i learned the i can open the hood off the rod and push back by the windshield, . One head bolt seems stretched more than others can i just replace it or got to change the gasket again ? I am going to the Air show in RI Sunday so it will wait till monday. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 How does it seem more stretched? The orginal Subaru bolts can typically be reused several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) One bolt on the driver side felt easier than the rest even tho the torque is the same. Anyway. I am happy to say the job is complete and the car if fixed I test drove over an hour up many hills and on the highway passing trucks up hill . Killer heat and Arctic A/C. As soon as I started it I knew it was fixed because the cooling did not blow like a volcano . I am confident it will last a long time. I made sure the parts were clean and torque to spec . Now I'm heading to the JY to get a power steering pump. Thanks for the advice guys. Edited June 14, 2016 by winginit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winginit Posted June 18, 2016 Author Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) Well i have 400 hundred miles on the new head gaskets on my $350 subaru with 115k miles.And happy to say driven every day and working great ! thanks Edited June 18, 2016 by winginit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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