RAD Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Ok, I have a 1983 Brat. The engine is not doing so well, and even in better condition, the Mountain grade I have to drive fairly regularly dogs it down to average of 45mph, 50mph max.I need more horsepower, I want more horsepower. Been looking for parts cars or engines I can bolt in.I hear all about EJ 22 swaps, but I stumbled onto something to good to pass up if its possible.I know someone who has an XT6 with 2.7 Liter, 6 Cylinder engine. The car is so bad off it may not be worth all the fixing up that would be necessary. Interior bad, paint bad, drivers door and window bad, Title cannot be found, etc. etc. etc.Not touching on the subject of transmission at all for now, what I need to know is has anyone ever put an XT6 2.7L engine in a Brat? I know people have swapped smaller engines, many examples, but an XT6 6 Cylinder engine?I have been told it could "Fit" in the engine compartment, except there would not be enough clearance with the Radiator.Bottom line: Has anyone ever done this? Can it be done without a lot of cutting and welding?I don't mind if I can/have to move the radiator forward some, might be able to do that for a couple inches with very little modification. I assume I will have to have special engine mounts, and there may a problem with future servicing, due to a lack of room in the engine compartment.However, if it is possible, I can (A) Have all the horsepower I will ever need, ( For very little money invested in the engine / parts car. Huge horsepower, very little money. The question is about feasibility and how much modification / work would be necessary.Electrical is another kettle of fish, not sure about that, trying to put off dealing with that until I know if this can be done at all.Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) http://www.subarubrat.com/er27install.htm Some info there. Owner of that BRAT is still here on the Board. The BRAT however is gone. Edited June 30, 2016 by TomRhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonist Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 There was one done in Adelaide, South Australia many moons ago. They fitted the radiator to the roll bar up behind the cab. Looks weird when following, but there isn't really a way to fit in in the engine bay with the extra length of the motor (which is all forwards of the EA motors) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAD Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) http://www.subarubrat.com/er27install.htm Some info there. Owner of that BRAT is still here on the Board. The BRAT however is gone. - What? What does that mean, like the Brat is "Gone" ??? You mean some lucky bastar- bought it I hope? Not a wreck I hope. If anything did happen to it, that might justify the effort in itself, to bring one back again. I am a cautious enough driver, pretty good at not letting other people hit me. Not likely to push anything to far, but good to have either the extra 'oumph to get up a steep grade, to pass, etc. and be able to do so without taxing the engine and running a high temp. ( I wouldn't mind being able to chirp all four in two or three gears for a little fun in a safe area, lol ) Edited July 1, 2016 by RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAD Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 I could maybe cheat a little and be able to move the radiator forward a couple inches, but as I have dealt with these brats that forward frame member (if I dare call it that) the radiator sits on comprises half of the front end of the car, including the headlights, etc. That's my front end collision defense, not just for a crumple zone, I want my vehicle to survive too, if possible.It would not hurt to beef-up that front end, move the radiator just a little forward and do something for the grill to still look right. There is a trick with the headlights I already wished I could do, and this would be the opportunity for that, too.Special engine brackets of some sort, But the transmission is a complete mystery so far, as my two best chances are to either sacrifice 4WD (Oh, CRa- !) Never, or probably have to find something hard to find, or get an expensive special adapter plate, etc, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAD Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 There was one done in Adelaide, South Australia many moons ago. They fitted the radiator to the roll bar up behind the cab. Looks weird when following, but there isn't really a way to fit in in the engine bay with the extra length of the motor (which is all forwards of the EA motors) (A) Roll bar radiator - If it was made from scratch as a spoiler, it would look cooler than other spoilers, and cool your water, probably better than in the front, because it has a little back pressure from the turbulence of the lower engine compartment. ( Just how many inches more forward in length IS the XT6 2.7 ? I could reason up to 3 inches extra - but if going by the numbers I would have to find some official reference to what it is for my Brat as well, as I might not trust just using a tape measure and getting something wrong, and not figuring it out until 2 pizzas, 3 friends, 2 six packs later when every one's scratching tier heads, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Its been done and isn't worth it. Timing components are extremely expensive for this motor and hard to get. I know someone that has a low mile one and he has about $600 in idlers and other timing components into it. A ej25 puts out more power and is more reliable. If you must put a 6 cylinder in it put a put in a eg or ez. Not sure about the ez's engines but with a eg33 you could put in a toyota bellhousing adapter and run it rwd. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/85144-wanting-to-do-something-different-to-my-brumby/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoyl Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 All of the above. It's an extended EA82, which is harder to fit than an EJ (except for the adaptor plate requirement for an EJ). It has the EA82's usual issues multiplied by 1.5. If you want a little more performance, an EJ22 or EJ20 SOHC is going to be by far the easiest option. Remember the BRAT is light compared to most EJ vehicles - my ex-SF Forester EJ20 was pretty unresponsive in the Forester but is more than sufficient in the Brumby/BRAT body (the loss of 600 lbs does that)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Similar horsepower to an EJ22. Virtually zero modification support for the engine. Requires a LOT of modification to the chassis. Difficult to get parts for. I love the ER27. But I would never swap it into anything. It's been done a half a dozen times or so. The radiator has to move a LOT. The brat that was already linked here had a ton of lift, and the radiator mounted horizontally over the engine (that swap was also done 12-15 years ago, and IIRC the rust had caught up with that chassis long ago. Probably not around anymore). Most of the others have no grill, tube bumpers, and frequently only the outside headlights. There was a member here in MN about 10 years ago who did it into an EA81 hatch (identical engine bay) that I saw in person. It does not fit well. Here's Adam NDJs '82 with an ER27: Also, the ECU is mounted in the trunk in the XT6, so the wiring is several times more complicated than an EJ swap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 S I love the ER27. But I would never swap it into anything.ap. +1 great engine they run forever and are reliable if you know what you're doing but the timing components alone are $400 for a kit and other parts are hard to come by/pricey. an EJ22 would be worth waiting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 +1 great engine they run forever and are reliable if you know what you're doing but the timing components alone are $400 for a kit and other parts are hard to come by/pricey. an EJ22 would be worth waiting for. Or non existent. The guy i know works for ssi and can't even find a tensioner new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAD Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hmmm... What a shame.... I think I could get it for maybe $500, trying to get a goog engine for less would be difficult. I also was thinking about someday getting an XT6, but after what you guys have said, maybe not.Parts for all these less common vehicles are hard to get, some worse than others. Could not find new tranny mounts for my brat, so I had to rig my own separate tranny "stabilizer" I guess I would call it. For my brat, I can get front rotors for $20 through regular store parts, but the rear drums are hard to find and like $85 or so. Thanks for the detailed warnings, I guess I will pass on this one opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hmmm... What a shame.... I think I could get it for maybe $500, trying to get a goog engine for less would be difficult. I also was thinking about someday getting an XT6, but after what you guys have said, maybe not. Parts for all these less common vehicles are hard to get, some worse than others. Could not find new tranny mounts for my brat, so I had to rig my own separate tranny "stabilizer" I guess I would call it. For my brat, I can get front rotors for $20 through regular store parts, but the rear drums are hard to find and like $85 or so. Thanks for the detailed warnings, I guess I will pass on this one opportunity. $500 seems expensive or i need to dust mine off in the garage. www.car-part.com i found a $500 155,000 mile EJ22 in like 3 minutes in southern california and one on craigslist as well. sometimes JDM engines are an option and older NA ones aren't that expensive. wrecked cars on craigslist are another option. with a little effort i'd find an EJ22 for cheaper than you were anticipating for the XT6. plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, gaskets - EJ will end up being way cheaper to get up to reliable 100k daily driver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Yeah, the BRAT in that link was sold, drove for awhile, rust and accident took it out of the picture, got parted and scrapped. Got an '82 here that I thought of following that build, but with my own ideas also. Difficulties of swapping that engine in, led me away from that plan. Edited July 1, 2016 by TomRhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 For a patient buyer, $500 is a healthy budget for a good EJ22 donor car up here (I bought a '97 with a rusted filler neck this winter for $300). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hmmm... What a shame.... I think I could get it for maybe $500, trying to get a goog engine for less would be difficult. I also was thinking about someday getting an XT6, but after what you guys have said, maybe not. Parts for all these less common vehicles are hard to get, some worse than others. Could not find new tranny mounts for my brat, so I had to rig my own separate tranny "stabilizer" I guess I would call it. For my brat, I can get front rotors for $20 through regular store parts, but the rear drums are hard to find and like $85 or so. Thanks for the detailed warnings, I guess I will pass on this one opportunity. I got transmission mounts for a 86 ea81 hatch back at Orieilys a year back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAD Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 I did try to find the info in suggested links, and was not able to.The XT6 is still available, and I have had another possible way to do it.Forgetting the hood for now, what if I found just the right spot, and cut the whole front end off the Brat, moved it out a few inches needed, and then add framing, and sheet metal for the gap. The nose would just be a few inches longer, and there would be no issue regarding the radiator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Again, it's not worth the hassle. Being someone that owns an XT6 and has 3 extra engines, you won't find parts to keep it on the road. I'm the guy who bought the last complete engine gasket set and 2 of the 4 timing belt idlers from Subaru. To do the complete timing belt job cost me almost $700 and I get my parts at wholesale from Subaru. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Subarus dont show up around here and Ive found 2 complete legacy wagons for under $400 in the last month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) why would you want an XT6 when you can get the same HP from an EJ22...and it's cheaper, more parts available, newer, OBDII... If you're all game to make it fit -the XT6 engine is easy to make a reliable daily driver - excellent reliability and very predictable/simple. What would be nice to have new is oil pump and timing bits - Timing pulleys - buy new bearings and have them installed or just grease the pulleys every so often, that's what i do. Easy, cheap, and reliable. Timing tensioner - those fail so rarely, i've never even seen a failed one on the 20 or 30 XT6's i've owned - i'm sure it happens but just buy 3 used ones and you're good for the life of the car. Oil pumps are probably getting scarce and pricey - that's a tough one. All the sensors fail so rarely just get used ones when needed or stock up ahead of time - knock sensor, TPS, distributor (it houses the crank angle sensor). The typical corroded water temp sensor is the same plug as a generic fuel injector and alternator plug that crumbles is also an easily found generic, can replace those with new. Two very common problems as the connectors age. Easy fixes. Address that stuff - seal the valve cover gaskets/grommets and cam seals and these things make another 100,000 miles without much maintenance or issues...if it's a decent motor to begin with. But the others are right from a pratical sense - there's almost no positive side or reason to do it. There are better engines and it's not even cheap? Edited August 29, 2016 by grossgary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now