ive got a few motor swap questions, 01(?) ez30 related

[JoeSloppyJoe]

ive got a 98 legacy postal wagon and the water pump on my EJ22 started leaking, my friend said the pump is broken and its leaking out of the weep hole, a replacement kit costs ~$300 with pullys and timing belt. as i was looking around for a cheap motor and parts i came across a short long block EZ30 for $100, i bought it, a quick ebay search showed me possibly different ecu's. so as for a few questions that i have;

 

1: does the numbers on the ECU matter? eg: 2Z, 4E, 4F, 6P

 

2: am i going to need an H6 cross member? (im assuming yes because MCM told me so)

 

Ive never pulled a motor or dash before so my knowledge on modification is very basic (unbolt things, bolt new things on)

3: is there 2 different harnesses on a car? one for the engine, one for the interior? will the EZ30 engine harness/ecu work with my interior? eg: dash lights/gauges

 

im trying to go for a very basic motor swap, im not going to hoon around in it, so the trans strength isn't an issue, its a daily.. i have an Rx7 and a motorcycle for hooning..

 

what im hoping for is to pull my motor/harness/ecu out, install EZ30/harness/ecu (and other accessory's) in and drive off, but i know im delusional..

 

any help would be greatly appreciated..

Edited July 27, 2016 by JoeSloppyJoe

[matt167]

It can work, but it's not that simple... Look on Nasioc or RS25 for the Impreza EZ30 swaps. THATS what your up against.

 

You have one harness, and you could pull the dash and pull it out and stick in an EZ30 harness. Your cluster won't hook up so you would have to read pinouts and cut wires and re pin it. That's just the tip of the iceberg.. Most people merge the harnesses at the passanger side interior. You need FSM's with pinouts for both cars, the courage to cut many wires, and a good soldering iron and shrink wrap... Also, you need a 6cyl trans if you have an auto since they are electrically different in function. If you have a 5spd, then you can trick the ECU into thinking it's in neutral all the time and it will work but you will get some crazy idle charecteristics you'll just have to live with

[idosubaru]

It'll fit.

 

That's a 01-04 EZ30, any EZ30 ECU from that era works, part number doesn't matter

 

You don't need a crossmember. It bolts right in.

 

Yes there's a main harness from engine to ecu then lots of other harnesses.

 

Harness - you have to strip your EZ30 harness but I'll let those familiar comment there.

 

Ez30 has 3 radiator hoses so that needs addressed.

 

Nice find......Do you know why it was cheap? A $100 EZ30 makes me wonder if it has blown head gaskets?. I've got 3 of those.

[1 Lucky Texan]

might need to find stiffer springs - if original, your struts and springs are likely very tired - particularly on a postal vehicle. Brake upgrade might be worth investigating too.

 

if you only have a short block - wonder how much you're gonna have to spend on heads and timing gear?

 

 

seems like a very big project

[montana tom]

Wow, thats a big project , and with an unknown ez30 with no heads , no exhaust , no intake ????? all because a water pump is failing ? And you're doing it to a postal ? You have toys already, this swap would be a large can of worms for you or anybody .Especially since you have no experience with engine swaps. I would fix your ej22...it's a great motor,in fact it's  bulletproof ! OOPs just noticed yours is a 98 ej22 not quite as bulletproof as a 95 back but still a good motor. Much simpler and faster if all you need is a running postal. EDIT..Just looked at your photos ... you bought a long block not a short block, with heads and intake all for $100 BUYER BEWARE  either you got the deal of the century or you bought somebody else's problem motor...  did the seller say anything ?  

Edited July 21, 2016 by montana tom

[JoeSloppyJoe]

thanks for all the reply's guys, you're all the best <3

 

Also, you need a 6cyl trans if you have an auto since they are electrically different in function.

i do have an automtic, but i was told they both use the same trans, i also came across a TCU, (but i think it was for a newer car) could i get the ez30 TCU and pop it in?

 

 

Nice find......Do you know why it was cheap? A $100 EZ30 makes me wonder if it has blown head gaskets?. I've got 3 of those.

from what the guy said on his ad, the timing chain was making noise, he didnt pull the motor apart so it could be some bent valves.. wont know till i get it over to my friends house and start tearing it down

 

 

 

might need to find stiffer springs - if original, your struts and springs are likely very tired - particularly on a postal vehicle. Brake upgrade might be worth investigating too.

 

if you only have a short block - wonder how much you're gonna have to spend on heads and timing gear?

 

 

seems like a very big project

i guess i have a long block, i dont know my terminology that well.. i thought a long block was everything like harness hoses and ecu, so i guess im nt starting from complete scratch

 

Wow, thats a big project , and with an unknown ez30 with no heads , no exhaust , no intake ????? all because a water pump is failing ? And you're doing it to a postal ? You have toys already, this swap would be a large can of worms for you or anybody .Especially since you have no experience with engine swaps. I would fix your ej22...it's a great motor,in fact it's  bulletproof ! OOPs just noticed yours is a 98 ej22 not quite as bulletproof as a 95 back but still a good motor. Much simpler and faster if all you need is a running postal. EDIT..Just looked at your photos ... you bought a long block not a short block, with heads and intake all for $100 BUYER BEWARE  either you got the deal of the century or you bought somebody else's problem motor...  did the seller say anything ?  

yeah, im dumb.. the guy i got the wagon from swapped the motor already so i dont know for sure if its a 98 motor, but either way im giving my motor to my friend as payment for doing the swap, he has plans for it aswell. from what the seller said the timing chain was making noise, when i went to pick it up he was wearing Subaru mechanic clothing, so that tells me it might be worse than i though, however at only $100 and i could part it out for more if need be

[idosubaru]

some of them were known for timing chain noise which is largely benign if it's "typical EZ30 chain whining".  we'll never know for sure but statistics are in your favor!

 

it's going to be a lot of wiring work and nothing will be plug and play.

 

automatic sounds tricky - the TCU won't be plug and play and the ECU is going to want to see some TPS input probably which will most likely vary considerably - but just a guess that a glance at wiring diagrams would confirm. 

 

the "easy" way to do it would be to simply run the existing 4EAT in mechanical mode - disconnect the trans connector or TCU altogether and run it with no electronic control.  older 4EAT's default to 3rd gear and locked 4WD - which you can install a switch to simply "lock" or "unlock" that - simply one wire (well two - one circuit for the switch).  but that probably steals the performance you're after....but would get it drivable with nearly zero work and zero cost.

[JoeSloppyJoe]

well that makes me feel a lot better, i know its not a guarantee that its fine, but knowing there's a common noise relieves some worries

 

as for the automatic TCU, the manual swap sounds the most appealing but i think i would need to import RHD pedals, previous googling said the LHD and RHD don't match, plus i would probably need a matching rear diff..

 

currently im having a difficult time trying to find an engine harness, the closest H6 at pick-n-pull i can find is 600 miles away... ebay only has ECU's

 

i think my best bet is to wait it out till an ez30 pops up nearby and i get lucky with prices.. probabbly my best bet is to go with a megasquirt..

 

im slowly coming to terms with how much work is going to need to go into this.. im grateful you guys didnt just ignore me because its a brand new account

[JoeSloppyJoe]

update while waiting for my friend to come over and look at the engine..

 

it doesn't look good.. i figured i might as well take a look at this $100 engine and see if there's cause for any concern...

 

these are the spark plugs out of 2 and 3.. the exhaust valves were bent or gone on 2 and 3.

 

1 looked fine as well as 4 5 and 6

 

i know im a fool but i want to fix it..

Edited July 27, 2016 by JoeSloppyJoe

[Numbchux]

It's doable, and I could write a fairly lengthy post with information how, but I read this

 

ive got a 98 legacy postal wagon and the water pump on my EJ22 started leaking, my friend said the pump is broken and its leaking out of the weep hole, a replacement kit costs ~$300 with pullys and timing belt. as i was looking around for a cheap motor and parts i came across a short long block EZ30 for $100, i bought it, a quick ebay search showed me possibly different ecu's.
...
im trying to go for a very basic motor swap, im not going to hoon around in it, so the trans strength isn't an issue, its a daily.. i have an Rx7 and a motorcycle for hooning..
 
what im hoping for is to pull my motor/harness/ecu out, install EZ30/harness/ecu (and other accessory's) in and drive off, but i know im delusional..

 

 

You're WAY in over your head. Also, with the destruction I'm seeing in that last picture, that engine is not worth fixing. I don't believe a phase 2 TCU will talk to a phase 1 transmission. cheapest way to get everything you still need is to buy a donor car (rusted out or crashed).

 

You're probably looking at a couple thousand dollars (if you're lucky, and can sell a lot of the unused parts from the donor car), and several months of down time to finish the project you're proposing. 

 

 

If it is, indeed, a water pump (not common), replace it. Use an OE gasket. And keep driving it.

https://www.amazon.com/Gates-TCKWP254-Engine-Timing-Water/dp/B003TUA5W6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469625826&sr=8-1&keywords=TCKWP254

and gasket #21114aa051 (MSRP on that is $4.20, so depending on your local dealer, it'll probably be close to that, or there are online sources, but shipping cost will probably be more than dealer markup).

Edited July 27, 2016 by Numbchux

[matt167]

RHD M/T parts are not hard to find.. JDM Importers probably trash lots of the assemblies since the USA is a LHD country, those parts are pretty worthless..

 

But your 6cyl is probably scrap metal at this point.

[1 Lucky Texan]

if the valve heads were banging around in there - probably need some pistons

[AdventureSubaru]

Waste of time. Don't even try this swap, with this motor or any other. You need a new motor, new trans, crazy splicing to harnesses, stronger suspension, new computer.... all to avoid doing a water pump on an EJ22?

 

You already have the best motor possible in there. A water pump is a 2 hour job. 4 on the worst day. You want months of work and thousands of dollars over a $40 water pump and 2 hours?

 

If you want the 6 cylinder, fix your car, sell your car and buy an H6 01-04. They are coming way down in price and you wont be wasting time and $$$

 

I agree, you're in way over your head thinking you or your friend could tackle this. (He shied away from replacing a water pump but is going to do an H6 swap in exchange for a used motor?)

[JoeSloppyJoe]

its not so much as just having an H6, i just want to do something to my car where it wont cost an arm and a leg

 

i didnt shy away from the water pump because of the amount of work involved, it was mainly to do with the cost

 

i got the ez30 for $100, an ecu for $50, a TCU for $20, and an 01 transmission harness for $30.

 

yeah i could spend $350 on a water pump/pulleys/timing belt and fix it myself the right way in a days work, but so far ive spent $200

 

my friend is a good mechanic and he lives with somebody else who knows his way around a subaru, and to top it off they have a mobile machine shop. they want to do the work for the experience because most of the work they've done involves GL's and loyals, they asked for the ej22 as payment and i dont see why not.. saves me from having to spend more money

 

unfortunately i cant do it with this motor without spending far beyond my budget.

 

the exhaust jumped time and the valves completely chewed up the pistons.. but the cylinder walls look fixable.

 

im still going with the ez30 but ive got a lead on a good one for $150 with harness, which total cost matches my budget of $350 for the same cost of the water pump/timingbelt kit. i could also make it pay for itself if i sell the good parts off the bad motor like the 3 good pistons/rods, cams, crankshaft, left head, fuel rails, oil pan, oil pump, water pump, chain tensionrs, chain runners, im sure i can sell all that plus whatever i cant think of for more than what ive spent so far.

 

so essentially im getting a free motor, free labor, more towing power and in a RHD car. apart from time spent troubleshooting and splicing, i dont see a down side, ive got other vehicles i can drive so it doesnt really matter how long it takes. the worst i can think of is i will need a matching transmission/differential if i cant make my 98 4eat think its for an 01 h6

 

yes i am inexperienced and over my head.. but how else do you gain experience if you never try?

Edited July 30, 2016 by JoeSloppyJoe

[1 Lucky Texan]

if the engine jumped time because of chronic abuse, who knows how long the bottom end might last after you invest in the heads? It would suck to have rod-knock show up 3 weeks after getting it done. So you would really need a total rebuild to be confident. pistons, rings, rod and main bearings, etc.

 

I had a similar catastrophic failure on a Honda decades ago. The cylinder walls need to be honed because, when the valve head impacts it, it makes a dent, but also raises a similar volume of metal - like the hole from a meteor with a rim around it. So, after you hone the cylinder down to remove the raised metal, you're left with small 'pits' and that means increased oil usage(but not 'horribly' increadsed). I dunno if the cylinder liners can be replaced...maybe someone here does.

 

but yeah, i applaud your enthusiasm and wish i was as bold about stuff as you seem to be - and at least you're making the effort to discover what;' involved in the endeavor so, after you arm yourself with the knowledge and maybe get some assistance from the Forums and some experienced mechanics you have there local to you - you should be able to do fine. Whether it all comes together on a limited budget - only time will tell.

Edited July 30, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Numbchux]

yes i am inexperienced and over my head.. but how else do you gain experience if you never try?

This is fine, but you keep talking about it like it's going to be cheaper than just fixing the water pump. You cannot have both. You can have an interesting and educational experience, OR you can have cheap. Remember the old adage, "Cheap, fast, reliable. Pick two."

 

 

Firstly, obviously you did not click on the link I dug up for you, that kit is $203.78, plus a $4.20 OE water pump gasket. So cost to repair your car is actually about $250 (by the time it's done, you'll need coolant, and maybe some other little things), not $350.

 

 

I doubt (it's possible...but....yea) you'll get any money for almost anything off that old motor. It's highest value is probably in scrap.

I'll say again, I don't believe a phase 2 TCU will talk to a phase 1 transmission. So add a transmission to your list. This may also require a rear diff/axles.

You'll need an entire bulkhead harness (the stuff behind the dash/HVAC ductwork), not just the engine harness.

Radiator and fans are different for an EZ30 car. It's possible to make what you have work, but it certainly won't be free and probably won't be adequate.

It would probably take me 15-20 hours to do that wiring job, and I've probably done more than 20 similar wiring projects. My first one (which was MUCH simpler) took me 3 months to get running, and I was dealing with issues for at least a year after that. So maybe your labor is free, but be prepared for a lot of down time and frustration.

$150 for a no-problems EZ30D is pretty much too-good-to-be-true. It's probably not as bad as your other one, but I highly doubt it's not going to have issues.

You haven't talked at all about exhaust. EZ30 exhaust is very different. No matter what you do, you'll have money into it.

Your stock tachometer won't work anymore. $50ish for a tach signal divider.

 

Not mentioning the little things. You'll probably have $100 in miscellaneous hoses. You'd regret not changing the valve cover gaskets and spark plugs while you've got the engine out (both wear items, and virtually impossible to do in the car in an older chassis), so there's another $100ish. Even little things like electrical connectors add up surprisingly fast.

 

Also not mentioning the slippery slope of supporting modifications. Brakes, tires, suspension.

 

 

I'll say again, the cheapest way to get everything you need is to buy a donor car. If you get lucky, and sell a lot of usable parts that you don't need, you might be into it for less than a thousand once the dust is all settled.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Numbchux

[JoeSloppyJoe]

thank you numb, a lot of the stuff you mentioned are valid points, but ive taken a lot of it into consideration already. exhaust, my friend has the factory manifold's off an old job he did. tach, i have an aftermarket one collecting dust. fans, low profile ones also collecting dust. the harness im working on, i have family in New Zealand who i could possibly ask to find me one that's RHD (i haven't asked yet) .

 

and as for the $150 ez30, there's an 02 legacy outback LLBean H6 at a junkyard near me and i was told it ran, it showed up a couple of days ago. all i had to do is go pull it but my plans fell through to grab it last weekend and its probably all parted out by now. so ill probably end up waiting for another one to pop up.

 

i did look at the link but when i had started making plans, i had only found a $350 kit so i decided that would be my budget. and yes, since then i have found cheaper kits and i probably will just fix my motor. but now i want to do the swap because its good practice for when i swap my rx7 motor.

 

since ill be fixing my ej22 i wont exactly need a budget anymore, and i can take my time finding a transmission and differential and other parts like a radiator and gaskets, once i feel i have all the puzzle pieces i can take a week or two plugging everything in.

 

i started this idea with the belief that a lot of the parts were interchangeable and would be a quick swap, being told by multiple people that the transmissions are the same and everything bolts right up.. sure it may bolt up but they aren't going to talk to each other, i had no idea the radiator had 3 hookups or that there were different types of 4eat's, so im glad that im not in a rush to swap it anymore..

 

as far as this broken engine, my friend is taking it as a project, he wants to try and fix it and put it in one of his project cars, he's unemployed and has nothing but free time and makes a living running a small engine shop.. he's taking that as an addition to the payment of helping with swapping everything on mine when the time comes

Edited August 7, 2016 by JoeSloppyJoe

[AdventureSubaru]

Sounds like a more solid plan than the original. Gather the parts slowly and cheaply. Read, read READ on the swap and wiring in particular and proceed when ready.

 

IMO that H6 is a boat anchor now. Would cost more to fix it than a good used one would. To each their own if he wants to try and fix it.