New owner technical issues help needed

[sadarahu]

I bought Forester 2007 from the dealer. 2 weeks later - I have a strange sound while driving coming from the back. I'm 60yrs/o so drove few cars and have sensitive ear.  IT sounds to me there is a problem but not sure what this could be. I have a friend mechanic but he is an older guy and his hearing is not the best. He will look into it in a few days but I would like to hear your opinions as well so I do not spend and replace parts that do not need to be replaced. I asked for advice at the Subaru shop but they want to charge for everything (even a mechanic listening for a 2-3 min while driving). They said it could anything from transmission (God forbid) through the differential axel (or whatever you call it) to the wheel bearing. In my opinion it is the last one but here are some test I did and want to listen what you have to say (if you have any technical knowledge. I'm not a car mechanic but I'm enough technically inclined to have some basic knowledge.

The sound is kinda repetitive bruming,... huuh huuuh huuh,,,,, like. Initially I tought that is because the car has 4WD so it might be normal. I remember though driving Isuzu Amigo, Toyota 4Runner (owned in the past) I did not recall sound like this. So....

I did some testing:

1. When I drive faster the sound increases in frequency but the noise is the same

2. When driving 40mp/h I put the lever on N gear the sound is still present

3. When I shut off the engine the sound is still present (no change).

4. We tried so far to lift all 4 wheels and put it on D gear but after a moment certain wheels stop spinning (I know this is normal). So far I discovered some vibration from transmission but it is har to determine if the sound was still present (I would rather say - no).

5. The tires are quite new (I would say about year or 2 old) but are crap - cheap. I'm thinking about replacing them although I doubt this is a tire issue.

 

 This car has about 80k miles so I'm hoping I do not have to do any major repair right after the purchase. Now here are my questions:

- any other suggestions to test weather this could be a bearing, transmission, tire or differential issue ?    (I know putting a car on a rack where the wheels can spin and touch "the ground like" would be the best but I do not have that option).

- are inner/outer the bearings for the front and the back are the same ?

- if it is differential issue what could this possibly be ?

 

The transmission runs smooth and I see no issues as far as driving, accelerating etc. although it seems to be some vibration when I move the lever from N to D but it is not significant.

I'm on a limited budget at the moment so trying to get the car to the perfect condition the most efficient way. I will soon need to travel 5-8k miles so need to make sure I do not need any repairs while traveling (as it is usually bigger cost and lots of stress).

 

Thank you - ARTHUR

 

 

 

[DaveT]

I don't have a lot of specific experience with this newer model. 

 

But something easy to check would be lube levels in the front and rear differentials, and the transmission.

 

I've had a bad u-joint in the driveshaft make odd rhythmic sounds.  Bad bearings [wheel or driveshaft center] can make a lot of different sounds.

[idosubaru]

Wheel bearing.

 

I like to sit in the back trunk area and listen with ear to floor to verify where it's located.

 

Rotate tires front to back, if the noise doesn't move with the tires you know it's not them.

 

Subaru rear diff failure is extremely rare.

 

Doubtful the trans.

 

Driveshaft or axle shaft or carrier beating maybe.

[1 Lucky Texan]

wheel bearing certainly possible and sometimes tricky to diagnose on Soobs - you could try to measure the temp at the hub with an infrared remote thermometer after a highway run, compare to the other side, if consistently 30-40-50 degs F hotter, suspect bearing (possibly dragging brake caliper too)

 

getting the rear of the ground and feeling of the coil spring and/or using a mechanics stethoscope on the hub while turning the wheel by hand may reveal some roughness or vibration - compare to other side. Lift the wheel in the 6 oclock to 12 oclock direction - should be no movement - again, compare sides.

Edited July 22, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan

[DaveT]

Sometimes, hard cornering can help determine if it's a wheel bearing.

[heartless]

hate to say it, but i am leaning towards wheel bearing as well.

 

even if you don't have a thermometer, you can do a quick check of hub temps with your hand - compare side to side and front to back after driving the car a few miles (5-10) - be careful/mindful that one may be quite hot and the others wont be if there is a problem. When one went on my car, i didn't even have to actually touch the hub/wheel - just getting my hand close to it I could feel the heat.

[gbhrps]

sadarahu,

 

I'd bet on a wheel bearing. Get the car in the air and use a mechanic's stethoscope on the rear wheel hubs while the car is in gear and running. Then check each of the wheel bearings in turn. The one that's bad will sound entirely different than the other three. If its a wheel bearing.

 

BTW, buying and changing out a wheel hub (bearing is part of the hub) is easy for a backyard mechanic, and not expensive. Good Luck!

[Fairtax4me]

If it has crap tires put some good ones on it. Good tires are worth it even if they don't fix the noise. (Peace of mind) You could try rotating them and see if the noise follows to the front.

 

Probably a wheel bearing. Looks like 07 uses a pressed in bearing. If you have access to a press the job isn't bad but you may be better off having a shop do it.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Fairtax4me

[sadarahu]

Thank you very much. You are all so helpful, I'm thrilled with the responses and I really appreciate your time for posting.

 

Yes I did the first step which is replacing the tires. $500 gone but the tires that the dealer had put on were total crap (although it looked like a new ones).

The tires are god now and the rattling sound is almost gone. Yesterday I drove on HWY however and I still hear something. I can only hear this sound with the speed over 50mph or so. I still guess the bearing needs the replacement. Now I cannot be sure is it the front or the back. I will give the suggestion the the friend mechanic with the temp measuring and we will see. I will report back here so this can be used in the feature by others with similar problems.

 

Arthur

[idosubaru]

I usually sit in the rear of the car (even the trunk if i have to) and usually then it's obvious if it's the front or back. If you just sit up front it's more ambiguous but if you hear it from both the front and far back it shows itself.  And then while you're back there you can tell left/right while you're at it too.

[sadarahu]

Thanks grossgary will take you advice.

I did some light testing today while driving and I observed that the noise now is different (after changing the tires). The tires were on source of rattling sound but the sound still exists. It sounds kinda like hitting the hummer lightly into some hard surface and of course the frequency is rather high. When I was accelerating rather fast I could not hear the sound. When I was driving about 35-40mph slight acceleration was causing the noise. The rattling nose persisted until I took the foot of the acceleration.  I would rather say the sound was coming from the front but I will do some testing tomorrow and have somebody drive while sitting in the trunk.

BTW. Does anybody know what is the average labor time to replace one bearing. I spoke with one mechanic and he says it is very laborious work. He estimated 3 hours per wheel and I wonder if this really should take that long. I though if the labor cost is acceptable I would replace all 4 bearings and forget about it for few years. I know I can drive with this noise around, but going on a trip of 6-8k miles is kinda risky.

 

Arthur

 

[forester2002s]

If you can get underneath the car safely, check the various components of the suspension, both front and rear.

 

Grab hold of the various rods and links, and give them a good shake. You can expect some movement, but you should not hear any rattling.

And check all of the suspension rubber bushings visually.  Sometimes the rubber deteriorates, and it is pretty obvious to see when these need replacing.

 

One particular component to check is the rear stabilizer-link.  There's one on each side, kind of 'C' shaped, with bushings at each end of the 'C'. If the bushings deteriorate, they will rattle when you shake the link.  And this can be another source of 'rumbling'. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by forester2002s

[heartless]

might also check all the heat shields underneath - providing you can do so safely. they are a known source of rattles... just a suggestion.

[1 Lucky Texan]

from the front? stronger when accelerating? almost seems like engine knock - it would be interesting to see live data, maybe a bad knock sensor has timing messed up - or cylinders are heavily carboned. A tank FULL of high octane gas might be a way to diagnose engine knock.

[sadarahu]

1 Lucky Texan

 

I'm driving every day 10-50 miles (both on streets and HWY) so testing wouldn't be a problem. Just filled out today.  Can you explain more about this:  "tank FULL of high octane gas".

I drove a bit today (Sun) but with the speeds below 30-35 I do not hear any noise. I also have to close my windows to hear it. Will inspect the car underneath next 2-3 days to see if there is anything possibly loose or making noises (but I doubt).

[sadarahu]

I wonder if it would make sense to take the car to the Subaru dealer. They told me they have rack (kinda like for a bike) so they can put the car on it to drive in place and determine if the noise comes from the bearings (although the charge for it). I'm rather short on a budget after buying this car for cash and was hoping I can just drive. Now instead right after buying I have to deal with the mechanics and dump more and more $$ into it. I'm not very happy although now I have no choice but to deal with it.  My last car was Toyota Yaris with 65k miles same year.(2007). No work required and I made 35k on it. Decided to change it simply because it was to small for longer trips. Unfortunately looks like I did not make the best deal.

I will try to observe some more if the rattling sound comes from the engine area or rather the wheels, although it is really hard to find out.

Edited August 1, 2016 by sadarahu

[1 Lucky Texan]

I may be wrong but, the odds there is a problem that ONLY a dealer could diagnose are low. A GOOD independent mechanic can test drive the car easily enough - better if you can take them for a short drive and demonstrate the problem. You'd save a good percentage of money in most cases. The approach should be; " tell me what needs to be done NOW (to avoid major damage or unsafe conditions), what I need to save-up for (fluid changes, new struts, etc.) and what I could just live with (drips, rattles, burned out dash bulbs, radio bad, or ???)"

 

in a new thread, ask for a recommendation of a shop near you and see if someone can suggest a shop.

 

we can't hear the noise, and are throwing out educated guesses - a rattle or knock could be any of dozens of issues.

Edited August 1, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan

[sadarahu]

OK, today I did some test driving on a smooth surface. The noise was coming at around 35mph when pressing the acceleration gently. When I took my foot of it was disappearing. I also noticed on the HWY it came back at around 55mph. I stopped by at a different shop (not so fancy). I let one mech drive it for few min but since there was crowded he couldn't even get to 35mpg. We inspected the car again and he found few issues (at least to his opinion).

 

- the bearing and the bushing abound the differential shaft was the thing that is making the noise. I inspected it and I would very much agree on that although there is no 100% guarantee this is the cause. WE lifted the car and I put it on run to let the wheels spinning. No significant noise. I understand that when the wheels are in the air there is not much power transferred onto differential shaft. I saw there is a small rubber bushing around the shaft (where the bearing is) so perhaps it is enough to replace the bushing, but I do not know how to test the bearing itself if it is god or bad.

 

- he suggested to replace the engine suspension pads (and I agree on that) because when accelerating with the break on the one side of the motor lifts up and there are some noises when doing the same on reverse.

 

- he also suggested to replace the stabilizers

 

The checked for parts and told me that the bearing itself cannot be changed because there is nowhere to get the parts. They can only get the whole shaft assembly and replace it. The bearing itself is not available. Not sure if this is true but to replace all of this I was quoted $950. I wonder what you think about this. I only have this car for 2 weeks and already dumping money into it so at least I need to be sure if this will fix my problems and how to deal with the warranty (?) if there are any issues after replacement.

 

At this moment it seems that the wheel bearings might not be an issue, but I will know that for sure after other things are fixed.

 

ART

Edited August 1, 2016 by sadarahu

[forester2002s]

I would replace the engine-mounts and the stabilizer-links first, and then see if this corrects the problem.

[1 Lucky Texan]

It can be tricky to get driveshafts for Soobs, but it has been done - larger cities often have a shop or 2 that can do the work, and I think I have read of at least one shop that does business by mail/shipping.

 

But a low miles, used unit from a junkyard would be my first source i think if I need a drive shaft. The carrier bearing I think you can get. As said above, save the expensive/difficult item for last.

 

if you can't find a DS in Chicago that's in decent condition,shop LKQ or car-part.com for a DS - best if it comes from the southwest somewhere.

Edited August 2, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan

[sadarahu]

Yes, you guys are right. I will leave the most expensive for last. The mechanic said that the poor engine pads could damage the drive shaft and I think he is right. I will also check the junk yards. The mechanic claims this is the cheapest price for DS ($450--500) but I will do my homework and see if I can get it cheaper. Do you think that replacing stabilizers is a DIY job ?

 

thanks again for your time to reply

ART

Edited August 2, 2016 by sadarahu

[1 Lucky Texan]

I haven't done it, but many folks DIY engine and transmission mounts. The engine mounts and 'dog bone' I think seem fairly easy. Of course, rush is gonna make everything more difficult.

 

Try a search - might even find a video or 2 at youtube. Be careful not to damage the pans if you get a jack under the engines and transmissions - spread the force with some strong wood pieces.

 

There are some aftermarket parts at Amazon , check RockAuto.com as well as on-line dealers like fredbeansparts.com and subarugenuineparts.com . I have also had success in the past (on springs and brake hoses) getting a local dealer to match prices from subarugenuineparts.

 

here's a coupla links to get you started; http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/21513-how-replace-motor-mounts.html

 

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/111-gen-1-1995-1999/218642-1997-stuck-motor-mounts.html

Edited August 2, 2016 by 1 Lucky Texan

[sadarahu]

Dear friends - now I'm completely lost. I visited my friend mechanic. He checked the car and told me that the noise is not coming from the drive shaft bearing. His worker checked the underneath and told me that the right front wheel axel is loose and needs to be replaced, but none of them could tell me if the noise is coming from that. IT seems like I might be just blindly replacing parts one after another and hope that at some point it will be the right one.

This car has around 80k so I wonder if it is likely that DS needs to be replaced. when I drive 45-55mph and put on N gear there are no noises. I wonder if the gear is set on N if DS is still moving ?  if it is then the noise is not coming out of it because it's gone when on N.  I also do not thin tit is coming from an engine because no matter what RPM the engine runs smooth (as long as the speed is below 40mpg there is no noise).  I guess I need to stop at the Subaru dealer shop and let them diagnose it, although I hesitate of doing this because I know they are much more expensive and after buying a car for cash I'm very tight on budget.

 

Does anybody know god Subaru shop in / around Chicago ?

 

ART

[sadarahu]

OK, replaced motor mount, drive shaft and there is a significant improvement although I think I still hear wheel bearings making rubbing noise (or perhaps I'm already over sensitive)....
Advice for those who would want to replace DS on their own. The bearing mounting nuts attached to the floor are really poorly mounted and very easy to come off the chassis when the bottom is rusted. We had to weld one back, so be careful. Also prepare yourself that some after market parts need to be fixed before installed. The wholes on the mounts did not align so we had to drill them out a bit.

 

Made a mistake and ordered only 1 mount (instead of 2). The same mount at O'Reily Autoparts costs $100 while on line only $40 - pure rip-off!

 

 

THANK YOU ALL FOR POSTING HERE AND YOUR HELP, REALLY APPRECIATE IT

Edited August 16, 2016 by sadarahu