Transmission Flush

[sadarahu]

Subaru Forester 2007.

I just checked at the shop for the transmission flush and they quoted me at around $250 stating that the labor is only around $60. The rest is 2 filers and the fluid (all Subaru genuine), although it wasn't Subaru dealer or shop.
They also mentioned something about 2 different methods saying that only one is recommended. When changing motor oil at Jiffy Lube they quoted me for this at $130 so it's $100 difference.

 

My question is:

 

Do I really need to use original Sub fluids and filters. Is it possible that something could go wrong if I use any after market products and what would you recommend ?

 

ARTHUR

[golucky66]

First, is it a drain and fill. Or an actual flush?

 

When a shop does a true "flush" and not a drain and fill, they typically use 50-100% more fluid then the system takes in order to take the brown or black fluid and make it a nice red again (assuming non-CVT). While most dealers and shops will only do a drain and fill, a flush is the only real way to truly replace all the fluid. Even doing the trick I've heard around this site about drain and fill 3 time (driving it in between each fill) you still are consistently mixing old fluid with new fluid.

As a very basic example, 0% fluid (currently in tranny) now drained (usually only drain about 1/3 of the systems capacity. 0*.66+100*.33= 33% new fluid. Then 33*.66+100*.33= 54.78% new fluid. And after the third time, 69.1548% of that fluid is new. 

That's a very crude example, but that's basically what's happening during a drain and fill (doing the cycle 3 times! Most shops I know only drain and fill once! What the hell good is 33% new fluid?

The drain and fill option is usually what shops sell because it's cheaper and then they can say "you'r transmission fluid is new!". 

The flush is quite a bit more money (as you are paying for more labor, and more fluid. And thus is why many shops won't do a flush. It scares people away.

 

As for the fluid question. Any fluid can be used long as it meets subaru spec for your car. Yes, genuine fluid is the "perfect" fit for your car, but they write specs for different fluids for a reason. Long as the ATF meets subarus spec. It's fine.

Edited August 16, 2016 by golucky66

[subnz]

Agree its pointless doing a half assed job

ie just draining the pan ie 2 to 3 quarts or so  out of the pan and leaving the remaining  old 5 to 6 quarts fluid in trans, torque converter and trans cooler.

 

Its not a hard job (maybe a little fiddley / time consuming ie drainers containers  jugs length plastic hose etc)  to flush whole trans system with new fluid at the same time completing the job properly.  

 

There's enough info on here (mr google) and on youtube on showing you how to do it.

 

That's probably why garages quote the prices they do  to account for their (extra time to do this) and the mark up on fluid prices etc.

 

Have just done (flushed / replaced fluid) my OBW 06 3.0R 5EAT recently myself  ie its the 1st auto I've owned and serviced.

 

This is how I did it   -  Take car for a good run  1st to warm up trans fluid  (needed  10 qts  new fluid   9.5 litres)

 

                               - drained trans pan into drain tray (3.5 liters - 4 qts   measure with 1qt  measuring jug into another waste container  )   

 

Replaced this with same amount of new fluid  in trans through trans dipstick tube with small funnel and in 1 litre / quart increments (container)

 

Find trans cooler return line/hose (approx 1" hose)  at bottom of radiator ie pull  hose off,  connect a clear plastic 10 foot length of tubing onto fitting - place other end  into empty drain try so it can be measured out.  

 

[this was on the bottom right (looking from drivers seat) side of my radiator  3.0R 5EAT JDM  but this may be different on 4EAT  and USDM]

 

Also put a 2nd drain tray under trans hose that was taken off cooler so if have disconnected the wrong one and this runs it doesn't make a big mess on ground.

 

Start car run engine briefly to see if have correct line connected ie old fluid coming out  of plastic hose - if not ie fluid coming out of disconnected trans hose - reconnect that trans hose and try removing the other one on the other side of radiator base and reconnect plastic hose to this.  and reposition 2nd drain try under this disconnected hose just in case - to avoid mess on ground.

 

Now arrange drain tray  with plastic hose into it  so you can see it easily from driver seat while starting /running car briefly (10 / 15 seconds max so don't run the risk of running trans too low in fluid) enough time to pump out approx  1 quart of old  fluid. via tubing into drain tray / measure with jug out of tray into waste container

 

 - replace with the corresponding amount of new fluid via funnel into trans dipstick tube.

 

While car is running for each 15/20 seconds while flushing out old trans fluid move trans selector back and forth through RND  reverse neutral drive to help the trans flushing process 

 

Need to make sure parking brake is on firmly / rear wheel chocked so car doesn't move / creep during this process.

Need to continue this 15/20 second start /stop  1qt approx removal / replacement process until fluid being drained / flushed looks clear / new looking.   Reconnect trans cooler return hose to its rightful place.

 

I put 10 quarts 9.5 litres through my 3.0R 5EAT  so it may be less required for 4EAT.

 

Used Penrite  Synthetic ATF FS  (Australian)

 

Never replaced filter - so   if do its needs to be a genuine subaru one as after market ones are restrictive apparently and don't flow well enough.

 

There is an internal filter / screen in pan but not necessary to service for a fluid change

Edited August 16, 2016 by subnz

[golucky66]

Subnz, if you went through all that trouble to do a flush without a machine. Props to you man. That's incredible. Flushs can be a pain to do in general, and you did it without a proper machine. Nice...

[lmdew]

I've done it this way for years.  Works great.   It usually takes about 3 gallons of fluid for the trans coolant fluid to come out bright red instead of dirty.

 

Easy and little work.

[golucky66]

Wow. Learned something new everyday

[xdeadeye1]

205 k miles on mine never had a trans flush.  Just changed trans fluid and filter. and anther time just changing the fluid.  

[bratman2]

I do drain and top off on my wife's Forester XT starting at 30k and then another next oil change. Same at 60k and then the following oil change. Last one done at 90k and next oil change. I was getting about 3.5 quarts or a touch more if I lingered too long changing oil and rotating tires. I don't think getting all the fluid changed is required unless it has never been done. I did a F150 a few years back with the bucket and hose method and it was really super easy.

[keith3267]

If you do a drain and refill every 25k miles, you don't need to get it all.  Each drain and refill will put enough new ATF and additives to keep thte transmission in good working order for the life of the vehicle.  If you wait until the ATF is totally depleted, then you need to flush.

 

Before doing a flush, make sure the pan is drained, removed and a new filter (or clean the old filter if it a SS screen) installed.  Fill the pan with fresh ATF.  Then hook up a FLUID EXCHANGE MACHINE, not a flush machine.  A fluid exchange machine uses the transmission to pump the old fluid out.  A flush machine uses a exteral pump that can damage the transmission.  Note: some fluid exchange machines are labeled flush so ask which it is.  If the engine has to be running and the transmission put through the gears, its the right one.

 

If you don't do the drain and fill first, you will ever get all the old ATF out.  The old ATF will be drawn from the center of the pan and fresh put in at the side.  The new will be mixing with the old.

Edited August 20, 2016 by keith3267

[sadarahu]

Thank you all for your posts, I'm sue some people will benefit from this.

Well although I'm not 100% idiot most of this is tabu for me. Never done flush, refill or anything like that. I also have no garage or tall lift to get the car up. My mechanic said will charge me $60 for the labor so it is not worth the hassle to do it myself. My concern is the fluid. He said the fluid itself will cost around $200 and it must be genuine Subaru product. I appreciate if you could point me what fluid shall I order. This is Forester 2007 with 80k on the odometer. I have no idea when any transmission mantenance was done just bought it) so I would rather assume it never had a full 100% flush. Not even sure if the trans was ever in maintenance.

[idosubaru]

Price check alternate fluids and don't replace the filters, or at least not one of them. 

 

There are alternative fluids to the Subaru fluid in that car - castrolmax J or something like that. might be cheaper. 

 

Subaru calls the AT filters life time and they never need replaced - i'm all about replacing it when it's convenient, but if much older, well used, 200,000 mile cars aren't having issue with them, i wouldn't worry about it on such a new low mileage forester. 

I'd wait until an ATF change around 120k to replace the filter. 

 

I'm not sure why he's saying there are "2 filters" - if he means the "filter" in the transmission pan, definitely don't replace that, that's probably where most of the labor is as you have to drop the pan, clean it, and reseal it.  if they are clogged with crud you're about to need a new transmission anyway.  the risk of future pan leaks from that job is more risky than the nearly nonexistence risk you're trying to mitigate in the first place.

[keith3267]

Have you called your local dealer to find out what the Subaru ATF
sells for?  I haven't done this yet for my Subaru, but other family
vehicles I have serviced, Hondas and Toyotas, use special ATF's and they
typically are only a buck or two more per quart at the dealer than the
generic stuff is at the auto parts store.

 

Dealers are allowed to sell it at any price they think they can get and I've
heard stories of dealers selling the special ATFs at $20-30 or more per
quart, but I haven't experienced this for myself.

[bratman2]

I got my Subaru ATF fluid off Ebay. Full case for around $60.00 shipped. That is around $5.00 a quart for the Subaru fluid. Quoting $200 for just the fluid is ridiculous. I'd suggest you find someone else to work on your Subaru.

[Pgould66]

Had my tranny fail which is common in SVXs. The garage which did the R&R did a drain and fill tesulting in the rebuilt tranny failing due to tesidue crap in tranny cooler/lines from failed tranny. Took car to tranny shop which used an exchange machine and ran fluids thru the tranny for almost an hour to completely flush the tranny, 2 coolers, and all the lines. IMHO - this is the way to go to insure acomplete flush.

[GaryRI]

I would never let Jiffy Lube flush an auto trans (again)! Doing so blew out the seals on an old truck years ago.

 

Go to a dealership or a shop specializing in transmission work.

[CNY_Dave]

Nothing special about subaru trans fluid, as far as I know.

Just as long as it meets spec, it's the same stuff as everything else out there that meets spec- no?

[vtwinjunkie]

Curious.

 

I am going to do a few drain and fills this weekend to my 05 outback 2.5i

 

When I went to the autoparts store I was confused with the plethora of different ATF's on the market.

 

how do I know which one works for me? will this work?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/17253576?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227024403558&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=60968584008&wl4=pla-87559965648&wl5=9061285&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=17253576&wl13=&veh=sem

[bratman2]

You most likely need to check your owners manual. In 2005 is when some automatics changed to requiring type HP fluid. Earlier models, and some may have been in 2005 also, could use Dexron III. Kind of a transitional year. Like mentioned by Grossgary Castrol also makes atf fluid that is type HP compatible and many make fluids that are Dexron III compatible.

[CNY_Dave]

The changeover was for 5EATs, they got the subaru-only HP stuff, our 2006 outback 4EAT uses Dex-iii