Shortaay Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 So Ive been wanting an older Subaru for years. Helped my dad on my neighbors GL over the years and loved how simple it was. I build custom cars trucks and bikes but wanted a winter beater, backup vehicle and stumbled across an ad. Long story short $40 later I was the proud owner on my 90 Loyale 4wd 5 speed. So I was told it wouldnt start and probably needed a fuel pump. I get it home. Tried starting fluid, nothing. So I have a spark issue as well. Crawl under to look for the pump and find the original pump hanging with a universal mr gasket pump wired in all hooked together. Obviously that would never work but Ill use that brand new Mr gasket pump on my Cadillac Im building. Next I put my meter on the wires. Run up, turn the key, run back and see just milivolts. So, It looks like Im not getting power to the pump. Was told the timing belts were done less then 9000 miles ago, Engine is spotless. Whats my next step. I have done automotive wiring for years but dont know the ins and outs of these cars. I know there are some electrical gremlins going on already. Radio, hazards, and clock dont work. There is stereo wiring hanging below the dash. So I will tackle all that asap (Did stereo and remote starts for years) Sorry if Im asking dumb questions. Ive searched alot, and found some good answers but looking for ideas to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Do yourself a favor and get a factory service manual, or find online scans of one. The fuel pump will only be powered for about 3 seconds if the engine is not running, so it would be easier to out the meter or test light where you can see it from where you can turn the key. You need a pump that can supply around 25 psi iirc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Well I hooked up the brand new universal pump and listened for it. Nothing there as well. I will get my extended leads and see if I can get it inside the back door so I can watch it The car came with a haynes and I have downloaded the fsm Edited August 17, 2016 by Shortaay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hook the green test connectors together. They may be under the hood, or somewhere else, I am not sure on the 1990 model. With the ignition on but the engine not running, the fuel pump will cycle on and off. This will make it easy to see if power is getting to the pump. Long leads not required. if it is not, then listen for the fuel pump relay under the dash clicking. These relays get flaky, they can fail so they don't click, or so they do click and don't actually connect. Access is terrible. Radio, hazards, clock - does this fuse also power the main controller box? I can't remember, I have never had any trouble with that part. Worth checking all the fuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hook the green test connectors together. They may be under the hood, or somewhere else, I am not sure on the 1990 model. With the ignition on but the engine not running, the fuel pump will cycle on and off. This will make it easy to see if power is getting to the pump. Long leads not required. if it is not, then listen for the fuel pump relay under the dash clicking. These relays get flaky, they can fail so they don't click, or so they do click and don't actually connect. Access is terrible. Radio, hazards, clock - does this fuse also power the main controller box? I can't remember, I have never had any trouble with that part. Worth checking all the fuses. Ok I will def try that. I heard no relay clicking before, But I will try with the test connectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Is there a source for these relays? I checked autozone today, not available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Do this for relay replacement... Jeszek is genius. Google 'Swap Relays Ultimate Subaru' Welcome to the board. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Oh wow, awesome, I use relays all the time for remote starts didnt know they were that low of amperage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyme Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Congrats on the Loyale Shortaay! I would take down the plastic and get behind the fuses to physically move (not remove) the computer under the steering wheel. Once all that is out of the way you can see the 4 identical relays vertically mounted. each have a different colored molex plug. One of those is your fuel pump relay: colored:...... <insert correct color here> You can test the pump itself with +12 volts using a power probe, and it should spin up. It is a high pressure fuel pump. i.e Make sure your replacement is not designed for a carb. Check the big three grounds... check fuses etc.. When I was still working through my 'new-to-me' 1989 GL wagon, it did not respond to starter fluid at all. I had to replace the right most timing belt before it came to life. (mine was missing about 20 teeth, and all the belt material was spread inside the covers.) I also have a 1992 Loyale 5-speed manual wagon and just did this fuel pump effort. 203,000 miles. and I brought back to life a 1989 GL Wagon D/R manual wagon with the timing belts work. 230,000 miles. Oh and where were you able to get the electronic factory service manuals please? I bought a replacement OEM relay for $25 from O'Reilley. (they had one in stock.) I'd go the Bosch route if I had to do it again. Either that a scrap yard... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I'd focus on the no-spark problem first and then the fuel pump. Pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor turns when the engine is cranked. Also check the rotor isn't spinning free on the shaft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 If you want the exact replacement roundie relay, Google the number on the outsideof the can. It will reveal the oem supplier and you can get them for 8 bucks each. Subaru wants 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I'd focus on the no-spark problem first and then the fuel pump. Pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor turns when the engine is cranked. Also check the rotor isn't spinning free on the shaft. Try this first. The rotor is held on by a screw and can fall off leaving the rotor not spinning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Oh if stereo wires are hanging, maybe someone tried wiring a stereo not realizing the Subaru has a common ground. You can blow fuses if you do the stereo wrong. Definitely get the Haynes manual at the very least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 Congrats on the Loyale Shortaay! I would take down the plastic and get behind the fuses to physically move (not remove) the computer under the steering wheel. Once all that is out of the way you can see the 4 identical relays vertically mounted. each have a different colored molex plug. One of those is your fuel pump relay: colored:...... <insert correct color here> You can test the pump itself with +12 volts using a power probe, and it should spin up. It is a high pressure fuel pump. i.e Make sure your replacement is not designed for a carb. Check the big three grounds... check fuses etc.. When I was still working through my 'new-to-me' 1989 GL wagon, it did not respond to starter fluid at all. I had to replace the right most timing belt before it came to life. (mine was missing about 20 teeth, and all the belt material was spread inside the covers.) I also have a 1992 Loyale 5-speed manual wagon and just did this fuel pump effort. 203,000 miles. and I brought back to life a 1989 GL Wagon D/R manual wagon with the timing belts work. 230,000 miles. Oh and where were you able to get the electronic factory service manuals please? I bought a replacement OEM relay for $25 from O'Reilley. (they had one in stock.) I'd go the Bosch route if I had to do it again. Either that a scrap yard... The pump is not correct, Its a carb pump that someone tried using. Thats why I said Im keeping it for my big block Caddy project. FSM was downloaded off jdmfsm.info As bad as the factory pump looks and the fact its hanging down already Im planning on a ford pump swap. I will do the test connectors and test voltage to the pump to confirm. Im not trying to spend alot on parts till I find the problem.Divorce kills all funds. So I might make a junkyard run. Where are the grounds Im looking for? Belts were supposed to be done 9000 miles ago and from the broken part of the timing cover it looks new.But it could be misleading. The car does have 389,000 miles on it I'd focus on the no-spark problem first and then the fuel pump. Pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor turns when the engine is cranked. Also check the rotor isn't spinning free on the shaft. That was next on my test list. I went to pull a plug to look for spark and broke a wire so I need those now too lol Oh if stereo wires are hanging, maybe someone tried wiring a stereo not realizing the Subaru has a common ground. You can blow fuses if you do the stereo wrong. Definitely get the Haynes manual at the very least. Yeah. Pulling all fuses and running down wiring. The stereo install looks nicely done.But looks like someone messed with speaker wiring. I will be running all new like all my cars anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 I cant find any good part outs on craigslist locally. And not alot in junkyards. So I might be trying to score stuff off here, I have a pile of parts to trade(rear is FULL of parts) I got soo lucky on this deal. Piles of parts, manuals, extra tires. I am third owner, Last owner only had it for 9000 miles. Previous owner was 80+ year old lady who put the other 380k on it and maintained it religiously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Only test done so far has been the green test connectors. Still only millivolts to the pump wiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Pulled the dist. cap, set my phone on record and cranked. Rotating as it should. Going to replace the rotor though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) So I just texted the guy I bought the car from after I found a few cut wires under the dash. Hes been awesome to deal with so I dont doubt anything hes saying. Said the car was running fine. Bought newer civic for a commuter car. He just did CV axels and got the alignment all screwed. Started eating tires so he parked it. Car sat about 2 months. Went to start it. And it was doa. Put a brand new battery in it (Mind you I got this car for $25 bucks plus an extra $15 to hold it for me since it as a 2 hour drive and I had to get a trailer) And he said he didnt hear the fuel pump and it wouldnt start. He bought the $50 universal carb pump which Im using on my other project, wire it in, still nothing so he listed the car on craigslist. I took pictures of a few cut wires and the mound of parts (heads cams, all accesories etc etc) I will upload them here later As far as the wiring he said the only thing he touched was halfass running new speaker wires. He said the stereo install when he got it was messy, he just made it work. I saw evidence of wire nuts on speaker wire around the rear hatch. I doubt that was him, He also told me the radio worked just no display.Im a wiring guy. I love it. Rewired a few of my minitruck projects front to back. This car will be so exception. I hate messy wiring with a passion Edited August 20, 2016 by Shortaay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 So pulled down ecm last night. Found what I though was the fuel pump relay even though the color connector seemed different. Anyway. I jumpered it and I have a solid 12 volts to the pump. I have a pile of bosch style relays from projects so I might swap over while its apart. So my next question is what exactly triggers that relay. Distributor is turning as mentioned above. Whats my next thing to look for? Also there is so many connectors just chilling under the dash, Im assuming thats for power options I dont have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I can use the example of my 86 wagon. It came with manual mirrors. I discovered that the harness was there for the Power mirrors. A trip to a scrapyard and I had power mirrors by plugging in the 2 mirrors and the switch in the dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 That's what I was assuming like there was only two relays and that bracket under my Dash but I saw other plugs that have the same connector as the relay that's why I got confused because the video I saw online showing the green connector for the fuel pump relay where is mine was blue and there was a green one hanging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 That's where a fsm for your year can really help. Mostly, the wiring didn't change a lot, but some things did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Yeah I have a fsm for 92 it doesn't go over all the colors though. It's cool that I can add power options though like I said I have no reason not to believe the previous owner that this car was running so I'm not concerned about stuff being unplugged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortaay Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Ok. I'm getting annoyed now. Did alot of testing tonight. I have no power to trigger the fuel pump relay. I do have 12v on the positive side of the coil. All connections near the coil area look ok. One thing I did notice is my alternator plug has seen better days. I'm going to try to find a good one to splice in. I have some parts on the way but I'm starting to think I'm missing something obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The fuel pump relay coil and one contact terminal gets +12V via a Black / White wire, from a 15A fuse that is switched by the ignition switch. The other end of the coil is run via Blue / Black to the ECU. The contact terminal that goes to the pump is a blue / white wire. The Black/White wire should have +12 with the key in run position. The Blue Black should be close to GND, but won't stay there after about 3 seconds of non running engine. The Blue White should be opposite of the Blue Black. What matches / doesn't match with what you are seeing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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