Quidam Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 It's been proposed and Stover Subaru partnered with AutoTech will most likely do it. Guys here spend $3000.00 to win $200.00, lol. I'll finish the motor, not sure what tranny. I'll post more as time permits. We have a full year to do it. Any ideas or suggestions welcome. I want this car to be in a position to WIN IT. Floyd Stover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 DO NOT LET YOUR FRONT END GET HIT.Your distributor is right up front and your CV axles are very vulnerable. Post a copy of the rules,and what your likely competitors will bring. FYI, I like demo derbies but I will never run a subaru in one.The sheetmetal is too thin,The engine is too close to the front bumper.They will not survive overheating,The drivetrain will not survive the abuse,etc.That goes for all subarus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) I'll get a copy of the rules. I build the motor loose and it will survive overheating:). This car is solid and came from Airport Subaru Miami. It's solid. Those other guys and girls will bring it:). I'll just leave it on the floor if you know what that means. Basketball talk. I'm thinking dual range 5 speed. Car painted black so it doesn't stand out. Murdered black. Keep it coming, I'll post some pics time permit. Edited August 22, 2016 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 asphalt or dirt?Is there a figure 8 as well as the derby?Are there separate classes for compacts or do they lump 70's american iron with jap-tin? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Dirt track separate classes for small cars. This is a wagon for one County Fair. It's held on an old horse track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 (edited) brown might not stand out as much as black if your on dirt. Edited August 26, 2016 by Uberoo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Oh Brown I'll consider it for sure. I spoke with my friend John at Willison Motorsports, picked his brain a bit, and he's in. Has built several derby cars. Car will be #7, and that goes on the roof and the drivers door. Sponsor names go on roof, nothing on the car except for that. Auto or manual, he said auto and I've got three of those, he said because of the clutch. I said what about the low rang 5 speed? His eyebrow went up. lol I'll have a clutch built for it if I have to. Hell, I've got three new ones on hand. All I can think of for now. I'll take some of that dirt to the paint store and have them match the color. lmao. good one. Floyd Car will be EFI Edited August 28, 2016 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I'll take some of that dirt to the paint store and have them match the color. lmao. good one. that's awesome! you guys are hysterical! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maozebong Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Old trick I learned from some Ohio derby red neck, he used to cheat by stuffing axle shafts into the frame rails. Hard to buckle a frame rail with 2 thick hardened shafts acting as a spine. This is likely not allowed anymore, but if rules don't specifically state it... Edited August 28, 2016 by maozebong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 Hey You, I'm not a Redneck...I'm kind of a Hippy Dippy Hillbilly. I don't want to cheat, however.,..let me tell you a short story. First days of what is now NASCAR on Daytona Beach. Rules said no head work allowed. Found out years later that the winning engine builder rigged up a pump with water and sand and pumped it through the head ports...you get the idea. They looked stock but were bigger. I'll get a rule book soon. Floyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 without rules I can't suggest ways to "cheat". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 I spoke with Willison just now and a new rule book is published in December. I haven't read this site yet:http://www.nationwidedemoderby.com/rules.php because I need an update for Firefox and I'm on "smartbrowsing" limited bandwith. I'm going to fix that another 50 gigs per month for $10.00. I've been using a gig plus daily. Anyway, driver I'm thinking will be AutoTech tow truck operator/driver. I told him to stop by and talk he said he would. I'm thinking 15" tires on it. I've got a set of pug aluminum I'd sacrifice. But 15" steel pugs? Plenty of time to sort that out. Suggestions welcome. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 *Drill a hole in front bumper shocks and collapse the shocks,weld the bumper in the collapsed position if your useing a bumper with shocks. *Unbolt the hood and slide it forward enough that you can bend down the front of the hood so it touches your front bumper. *Chain hood to front bumper and around lower radiator support use bolts to tighten chain as much as possible. *Use the maximum number of all thread hood bolts on your now shortened hood. *Stitch weld the body seams infront of the firewall. *Weld the side doors as solid as the rules allow+ whatever you feel can be argued for "safety" *Weld the rear hatch as solid as you can with the 6 3x3 plates that you are allowed. *Use a loader or bobcat or other piece of heavy equipment to pick the car up by the rear bumper, once the rear bumper starts curling upwards, use a BFH to finish curling it UP and IN to the rear hatch,chain it to the rear hatch and tighten with bolts *Find 4 TALL temp spare tires(full size car space saver tires) and use a torch to MAKE them fit your boltpattern,use washers along with the lug nuts to make sure the tires wont come off.Being tight is more important than being perfectly centered on the axle. *Slot the holes for the front strut tops hats INWARD as much as possible. *run a factory 4wd skidplate under the engine *If running an automatic, bypass the cooling lines that run to the radiator,because hot fluid is better than no fluid. Bonus * hammer the window seams flat then stitch weld the newly created seam.Do that for any accessible window seam Driving tips * DO NOT TURN AND USE FULL THROTTLE=broken CV axle *Try like all hell to not let the front of the car get hit,accelerate and take the hit on the door if you can *Always Hit perpendicular to another car *Never go for the other car's radiator because chances are yours will get taken out too. *Dont waist your time hitting end to end,and dont bother hitting anything behind the front wheels.ALWAYS hit the other car on the FRONT TIRES because the front suspension on any car is very vulnerable.With FWD cars the CV axle will pop fairly easily ending their night,and with RWD cars its not too hard to wreck the steering or even pop a balljoint which makes it very difficult to move. *Always be moving because moving targets are harder to hit *Put your head on a swivel to make sure your front end doesn't get hit. *Finally if a hit on the front end is in inevitable PIN the THROTTLE because with any luck your wheels will start spinning so the other car can't transfer as much force into the front of your car because sliding friction is less than static/rolling friction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 I'm wondering about the possibility of an EJ swap for this car. Willison Motorsports has one built small block chevy he puts in all his derby cars. Cadilliac, Ford LTD, Dodge something...body doesn't matter, in goes the small block, custom mounts and driveshaft and so forth. EJ 22 or EJ 18 even. What do you think? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 No,more power will just stress the front axles even more.In addition to that bigger engines need more cooling which is not good in a cramped engine bay on a derby car that will mostly likely loose the radiator anyway.An old tired,clapped out low compression engine is far better for a demo derby than a powerful engine,you looking for reliability and not power. also spend as much time as possible making the car RUN and DRIVE before the derby.Before the derby the car needs to be daily driver reliable if not road trip reliable.As long as your still able to move under your own power you have a chance of winning so make sure the car functions as good as it can.Move the wires for the engine out of the fender into a safer spot, relocate the computer somewhere safe as well. I'll say it again because its worth repeating if at any point before the derby the car isn't reliable enough to just get in and drive to the grocery store(dont do that because cops dont like cars with no glass,lights,loud exhaust,and numbers on them driving on the street) its not worth running and your better off saving your money and not running because you WILL get taken out. Believe me there is nothing worse than being taken out because some wire came loose and loading up your car on the trailer 10 minutes in.Sure its an easy fix but your out all that time money and effort leading up to the derby.At the end of the night your car should still be running and driving(with a trophy in your hand) or there should be something VERY wrong with it that makes loading it on the trailer a PITA(suspension sheared off the car or a rod hanging out of the engine for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 Thanks for the feedback. I've got axles from a 87 Turbo Traction Wagon that are the stoutest I've seen. But the spline doesn't match the DR 5 speed. I could use the 5 speed from that car with 3.7 gear and diff lock. I have the whole car. Has 140.000 miles on it. I'm not sure if the driver can handle a Subaru as well as I can, he will have to prove it to me, otherwise I drive it. I've got plenty of places off road to test and tune. Keep the comments coming please:) I'm absorbing it all. Will start on the actual build early spring. Collecting parts and what not now. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Do your rules allow an AWD? Any 4cyl class around here has a 2wd/FWD rule. They DO run Subaru's ( First Gen Leggy's take a beating before they quit too ). But, they are required to disable the AWD. The tracks know about the FWD fuse and not to allow a M/T that isn't somehow modded like a welded center with cut rear CV's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) Yes, 2 wd class is what I'll be doing. What do you think, diff lock 5 speed or DR 5 speed. Just realized I can weld the diff, is that right? Rules allow manual trans, need to find a clutch shop to beef up a BeckArnley new clutch pressure plate. Could buy a custom disc as well. I want Delta Cams in the motor, will add it to the roof as a sponsor. Lets work it out, K? Doug Edited September 30, 2016 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 Reading the 13 inch tire thread here got me thinking. The space saver tire and wheel is not up to the task Uberoo. What I'm thinking right now, which should evolve, is a tough sidewall, 13 inch, knarley tread tires on the front. That keeps a lower center of gravity...Rally car tire? Tractor tire? Is a welded front diff doable? Welded diff and tractor tires. What do you thinik? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) We want pictures, run some 14 " 6 bolt wheels drilled to fit, smallish tires so when there hit its the rim that's hit not the tire Edited September 30, 2016 by Scott in Bellingham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I said space saver tires from a FULL SIZE CAR,tall and very narrow.If necessary you can use a router to open up the tread a little.I wouldn't recommend welding the front diff.I tried that on 83 saab 900 that I ran.I blew up a CV on hard pack dirt just trying to turn the car at slow speeds at my property.Then I had a machine shop lathe up a sleeve that was a press fit over the axle cup and those got tacked on, and still blew both axles in the derby.One in the figure 8 and one in the actual derby. Saabs are known to be able to hold at least 300HP on stock CV's on pavement for your information, but the stress of trying to turn on anything but ice or very wet dirt just blows them apart if the diff is welded. That was on a set of destudded snow tires.Tractor tires are also not a good idea just because even with an open diff the front has too much grip and will pop Cv's with the right (wrong) combination of throttle/steering angle, in addition to your front end not being able to slide if it gets hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Hey Guys, I'll get back to you all, try to get some pics tomorrow...drag it out of the weeds. I spoke to my local tire shop this morning, HUDDLE TIRE is going to be advertised on the roof. He does all my tire work. Muffler Man I'm going to see, as he will be doing the exhaust, his name on the roof too. I'm going to pick Willison Motorsports brain about ride height, tires...I've been thinking of driver technique and I think I may have discovered a huge benefit to using the DR 5 speed. John at Willison was paralyzed from the neck down in a tree cutting, firewood accident. He is slowly recovering doing physical therapy and such. Doc says he is responding. He stood up a couple weeks ago for 5 minutes. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 I did some wrenching on it. I may have to use another body as this one is still nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 The difference is title or not.I have not and will not derby a car that has a title because it can be saved and driven on the road for years to come.If however situations make it impossible to title the car then it can be derbied.My thoughts are that any car deserves a viking's funeral at the end of its life especailly if its destined for the crusher with no title.Sell any many parts as you can then do what you can to make the car's last moments amazing.If the car is straight and has a title sell it to someone who will drive it because there still is lots of life left in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 I have 11 Subaru...I think. Only junked the title on one rust bucket so I could transfer the plates. I have titles for them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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