Is this 2010 Impreza a good deal?

[Desertsp]

Found a 2010 Impreza on Craigslist with 87,000 miles - owner says its in good shape and I have reason to believe them.

 

http://madison.craigslist.org/cto/5703849301.html

 

Assuming it checks out as problem-free, what would be a fair price target?

 

Also, any recommendations for a reputable shop to perform the inspection in Madison, WI?

 

Thanks!

[Desertsp]

One more thing, the 2010's evidently have the bad head gasket. A lot of conflicting info on this issue, but LLC Motorsports paints a pretty dismal picture...

 

Anyone here have a 2010 or similar 2.5 that's made it above 200k with no engine work? How'd you do it? I'd like to ask the stellar the right questions as far as what they've done for maintenance that might head-off the issue. Not going to buy the car if it's likely to have such a serious problem

 

http://www.licmotorsports.com/blog/2014/01/30/dreaded-subaru-head-gasket-issue

[Olnick]

Wow, that's a pretty car! 

 

Go on Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book to see what they estimate the value to be--that will give you a ballpark price to work with.  (Remember, KBB is a dealer's tool so it'll probably show a higher value!)  Good luck.

[idosubaru]

completely ignore that link you posted - i'll describe later why.

(in general i suggest you not go looking for the worst informaiton you can find and give it credibility and traction - or if you're like that please avoid WebMD)

 

headgasket- yes it's an EJ25 in that car which can have headgasket issues.

 

not all of them have it happen and it's a mild issue with little cause for concern. they start slowly leaking and take months and tens of thousands of miles to progressively and slowly get worse. you have months if not a year or two to plan your repair.

there's very low risk of catastrophic failure that will strand you. no risk, no stranding....just another possible maintenance cost, plenty to make a great decision on and no reason to stay away from what is otherwise a great 200,000+ candidate.

 

A. "how'd you do it?" tthere's nothing you can do to avoid or mitigate headgasket issues besides just proper maintenance. i.e."* change the coolant and add the coolant conditioner (if still required, which I think it is in 2010), and never let your battery terminals/grounds get dirty/corroded. which is unlikely for owners of such new cars anyway. people that say "i used this and this and never had issues" - totally anecdotal and meaningless - they wouldn't have had issues if they didn't do whatever it is they think they're magic in a bottle was.

 

B. these engines routinely make 200,000 miles without issues. those aren't the ones hitting the internet air waves.

they will need maintenance - timing belt at 105k, spark plugs, wires, filters - all that will add up to the cost of a headgasket repair, so it's not a big enough deal to always be a deal breaker even if the headgasket did need replaced. they generally leak slowly at first and give you months to plan a repair - so it's not a risk, though a small percentage of them do have failures that may strand you, but that's unlikely.

 

Buying price varies wildly based on nearly unlimited factors.

 

with KBB, autotrader, ebay, online searching and listings you can easily research actual list prices on vehicles and see what thousands of them are actually listed for.

then the myriad variables take over on how much they'll bend on the car price. do some research and you'll easily get a reasonable range to work off and asess.

 

if you're looking for very specific vehicles - really new, low mileage, supberb condition, hard to find comps' on - price flexibility usually suffers, but not impossible. just luck/timing.

 

_____________________________________________

 

Now, onto that webpage - in general they're correct - some EJ25's have headgasket issues, the rest of their information is incomplete and rather unhelpful in painting an accurate picture.

 

"Non-turbo 4 cylinder applications all have issues" - wrong.

 

"oil and coolant mixing" - wrong again they never, ever fail that way. they do allude to this - they may exhibit that symptom if they're run into the ground, ignored, and run hot to oblivion - but that's true of every internal combustion engine ever made, not a failure mode of that headgasket. the way it's written is so ambiguous an unknowing reader like yourself is lead to think they might loose bearings if the needle moves when they sneeze.

 

the 80k-120k mileage assocation - nope, try again. here's how it works - newer/lower mileage cars are seen less/have less visibility on forums, indepedents, friends garages - they do have fewer isues but more importantly, they're more likely to get repaired at a dealer, or without question and air time in more public displays (like this). higher mileage cars like 150k+ are more likely to just hit a junk yard, sold as-is on craigslist, or get fixed by a DIY guy and never get seen at a shop who wants what the car is worth to fix it, so that leaves that middle ground mileages around 100k-150k to be *blamed* for various failures because that's when they get the most air time or people scrambling around for independents or a better deal on their expensive repair for a low valued car. people make that assumption all the time for lots of different issues/parts/repairs - fuel pumps, wheel bearings, head gasket...it's an incorrect correlation - it just means "most people are driving 80k-150k cars" or "most people seeknig repairs at indepdents are driving 80k-150k cars", but it's simply a correltation, not a causation. i get that from a person but a shop shouldn't be that short sighted particularly if they're writing something for the masses with their name on it. you can prove me write by looking up any various headgasket log and seeing the mileages recorded.

 

their year break downs of engines affected is not correct. if it's not right don't list it - just put a more generic statement "some EJ25's", "some Subaru 4 clinder engines since..."

 

they also barely touch on the EJ25D and the differences there. they don't talk about differences between 00-04 and 05+ variants, and EJ22's (which are included in some of their year break downs). they started the business in 2004 - by that time the first EJ25's were 8 years old - with 12k annual average that puts them at 100k mileage - the least valuable EJ25's on the road when they opened who would be trying to avoid dealer prices and looking for these guys - would have...oh wow, look at that....100k on them. shocking. company wasn't around to see EJ25D's failing under warranty at 20k. no worries - that's not your engine, that one is the worst but a different variant from the newer EJ25's. that's just an illustration of the frequent perpetuated mileage allusion which happens all the time for lots of items.

 

that said - maybe that was all transcribed by an unfamiliar editor spitting out content quickly - but in any event, it's a hyped up version of reality.

"Non-turbo 4 cylinder applications all have issues" - um, no, that's not even close to true.

EJ25's have 4 distinct failure symptoms and *none* of them are oil and coolant mixing.

 

the 80k-120k mileage assocation is plain stupid - i wouldn't call it stupid except they're a shop and should know better than trying to fear monger some business and anxiety in customers. newer/lower mileage cars have fewer issues and are also more valuable and more likely to get repaired under warranty, more likely to get repaired at a dealer, or without question and air time in more public displays (like this). higher mileage cars like 200k are more likely to just hit a junk yard or get fixed by a DIY guy, so that leaves that middle ground mileages around 100k-150k to be *blamed* all the time for various failures. people make that assumption all the time for lots of different issues/parts/repairs - but it's simply a correltation, not a causation. people are too short sighted to see that but a shop shouldn't be, particularly if they're writing something for the masses with their name on it. shame on them.

 

their year break downs of engines affected is not correct and apparently they're not familiar with EJ25D's or just chose to ignore that huge swath of subaru owners - which probably means they're new to the Subaru headgasket game that's been around for 20+ years not, probably also indicated by the 2014 post date - good grief they're behind the times.

"Non-turbo 4 cylinder applications all have issues" - um, no, that's not even close to true.

EJ25's have 4 distinct failure symptoms and *none* of them are oil and coolant mixing.

 

the 80k-120k mileage assocation is plain stupid - i wouldn't call it stupid except they're a shop and should know better than trying to fear monger some business and anxiety in customers. newer/lower mileage cars have fewer issues and are also more valuable and more likely to get repaired under warranty, more likely to get repaired at a dealer, or without question and air time in more public displays (like this). higher mileage cars like 200k are more likely to just hit a junk yard or get fixed by a DIY guy, so that leaves that middle ground mileages around 100k-150k to be *blamed* all the time for various failures. people make that assumption all the time for lots of different issues/parts/repairs - but it's simply a correltation, not a causation. people are too short sighted to see that but a shop shouldn't be, particularly if they're writing something for the masses with their name on it. shame on them.

 

their year break downs of engines affected is not correct and apparently they're not familiar with EJ25D's or just chose to ignore that huge swath of subaru owners - which probably means they're new to the Subaru headgasket game that's been around for 20+ years not, probably also indicated by the 2014 post date - good grief they're behind the times.

Edited August 28, 2016 by grossgary

[Desertsp]

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll have to look into the details further.

 

I should add that it's not the risk of being stranded that concerns me, it's the greater than zero probability of a very expensive repair. Having advance warning isn't really that helpful (to me) because either way the repair needs to be made, and it's going to cost a buttload. I can immediately resolve the issue, paying by credit card at the small cost of interest, or save up and do the repair a few months after the problem surfaces...either way it significantly reduced the value equation for the vehicle compared to one which never needs an expensive repair like that. But...this is all a moot point if the particular engine isn't even likely to have an issue.

 

Anyways, I appreciate the detailed information and I think I still have more to learn before I can comfortably buy a Subaru with a predictable risk-profile.

[idosubaru]

How about EZ36 engine - no $1,000 timing belt maintenance and unlikely headgasket concerns.

 

FB engine avoids those too but you won't like the oil consumption information.

 

Every vehicle has a greater than zero probablity of expensive repair, but i understand the sentiment you're conveying.

[Desertsp]

I did initially consider a current gen Impreza with the FB20, but between the oil consumption and reduced power output, I wasn't that interested. I still haven't done a test drive though, so maybe the power thing isn't a big deal.

 

What's your take on the FB oil consumption issue? Is it a money pit?

[idosubaru]

I haven't seen enough sample size to make a good picture of what's happening. The few I've been around haven't had any issues. I'm not sure what the percentages are but quite a few dynamics are making this complicated and inciting consumers which doens't help internet publicity. Makes it hard to see the scope of the issue. But Subaru is replacing engines for people when necessary and offering extended warranties.

 

I don't think it's only Subaru engines, though maybe more pronounced. I would just use heavier weight oil than the recommended 0w-20. there are subaru owners documenting less/no consumption with thicker oil and then there's this:

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/07/consumer-reports-sees-oil-vanish-from-some-test-cars/index.htm

Edited August 29, 2016 by grossgary