Engine swap? 2001 Impreza auto to '99 Legacy 5 speed

[nelstomlinson]

I have a 2001 Impreza with an automatic and a running 2.2L engine, and a '99 Legacy outback with a 5 speed and a blown engine (2.5L, I'm pretty sure).  I would like to swap engines to make a running Legacy with a 2.2L and a 5 speed. What sort of troubles am I likely to run into?

[wtdash]

Hi,

Unfortunately, this is that Phase 1 vs Phase 2 issue that is covered on here....a lot.

 

1999 Outback is a hybrid engine w/the Phase 2 short block but Phase 1 heads. ...meaning it's a No Go for anything newer.

 

You could use the EJ22 short block w/the EJ25D heads, but I wouldn't......it'd be EDIT (see below): 'higher' compression ratio.

 

You could find a Ej22 from a '95-'98 legacy or impreza and swap in. As noted on here it's 99% plug and play.

 

GL,

TD

Edited March 16, 2017 by wtdash

[nelstomlinson]

Wtdash, I want to drop the entire, running 2001 Impreza engine into the '99 Legacy, and bolt it to the Legacy's manual transmission.  I'll toss the old Legacy engine.  There won't be any swapping of heads or anything like that. 

 

Are you saying that the older Legacy flywheel won't fit the newer Impreza engine?  Or the engine mounts are different?  Or the bell housing has a different bolt pattern?  Or maybe all of those and more?

 

Is there a primer on here that covers issues like this?  Things like Phase 1 and 2, EJ22 and EJ25D are greek to me so far, and I'd like to fix that.

[wtdash]

Yeah or I should say No. Can't do that.

Phase 1 refers to engine and transmissions used by Subaru from 1990-1998. There are differences between years but nothing as major as the phase 2 changes in 1999.

 

It's mainly electronic changes that make it very hard to put your 01 in the 99. You'd have to do a complete harness swap.

 

If you read enough you'll see the phrase "Subies are like Legos", which is mostly true. The engines and trans from '90 - '10? will all bolt together, w/minor changes over the years. But they won't necessarily start/run due to dffererences in ECUs, etc.

 

And '99 was transition year, so the Legacy Outback and GT w/the EJ25D/ 2.5 have a Phase 1 electronics vs. the Legacy L/Base model w/the EJ22/2.2 have the Phase 2 electronics....yeah, confusing and frustrating for swapping.

 

Plz read up on this. Google is your friend.

Edited September 20, 2016 by wtdash

[nelstomlinson]

I found the Subaru Technicians Reference Booklets and have been reading up.  It looks as if the easiest, cheapest route to resurrect the '99 might be to rebuild the engine.  Next step will be to pull it out and see how bad the bottom end really is.  The 2001 has a trashed body, so it will have to become a parts car eventually.

[wtdash]

Hi,

I don't know your used car parts avl. in AK, but as noted by me, on here, and numerous posts on other subie sites, the EJ22 is generally the easiest and cheapest.....really. If you're hauling/towing/high elevation a  lot you'll notice the  loss of power, but w/a 5-speed you can shift around it. 

 

Down here the EJ22 is $700 or less....usually.

 

 

BUT I don't know diddly about rebuilding a Subie engine, so your mileage may vary (YMMV).

 

GL,

TD

Edited September 26, 2016 by wtdash

[nelstomlinson]

If I luck onto a pre-'99 EJ22 cheaply, I might go that route.  On the other hand, I would enjoy doing a rebuild.  Either way, the first step is going to be removing the current engine.

 

The problem up here is freight costs.  It would probably cost more to ship an engine up here than it would cost to buy it down there.  I've never seen a Subaru engine on Craig's List here, and finding that '01 with a trashed body for $1,000 was a happy surprise that isn't likely to happen again.

[wtdash]

Ok...I'm assuming your 'blown engine' in the '99 is rod bearings? If the HEADS are salvageable you can put those on the '01 EJ22 and make a 'reverse franken(stein) motor' hybrid.*

 

It'd be lower compression than either engine was originally but would only cost you a head gasket (mostly) to make it work.

 

*Some take a 2.5 short block from a '96+ Subaru and put the 2.2 heads on it to make a high-compression torquey engine...referred to as a 'franken build' by some.

GL,

TD

[nelstomlinson]

I won't know until I open it up, but rod bearings is what the fellow who gave me the car suggested was wrong.  Thanks for the suggestion; that might be a good option.

[86BRATMAN]

Phase 2 ej22 shortblock and 97-99 25d heads actually creates a 10.4:1 compression dohc ej22. And you can use the thin phase 2 ej22 gaskets which don't blow like it's their job unlike the 25d gaskets.

[86BRATMAN]

Also, using phase 2 ej22/ej25 sohc heads on any phase 1 shortblock will lower the compression because the combustion chambers have a larger volume.

[ocei77]

Rebuilding an engine is time consuming and depending on machine costs expesnsive.

If a bearing is gone more likely the crank is shot also. In the lower 48 it's usually cheaper to buy a crank with bearings than to turn the crank, new bearings and polish the rod( hoping that's all it needs).

You have to check on freight costs, etc for a new crank, Try northernautoparts,com for cranks and get shipping.

For the 25D heads on a 2.2 go to legacygt.com and look for posts by DOHCEJ22E1 . There is a complete build info there and which HG to use.

If more info is needed, just post and I'll give you what I can.

 

O.

[86BRATMAN]

I'm not sure if Ken (dohcej22e1) has updated his posts yet or not. I've been working with him to correct a lot of the wrong compression ratios in his write ups. But there is still a lot of good info in his posts.

[nelstomlinson]

Two more questions on this business. I have a line on a running 2014 2.5L engine, pulled from a wreck. 

 

1)  Can anyone tell me whether this would play nicely with the ECM in the '99 Legacy 2.5L DOHC? 

2) Would it be reasonable to use this as a new bottom end with the '99 Legacy 2.5L DOHC heads and ECM?  Or maybe just use the crank and con rods out of this engine to rebuild the '99 engine?

 

Unfortunately, I still haven't pulled the bad engine out of the '99.  Maybe this spring, after it warms up.  It was -24F this morning.

[wtdash]

Two more questions on this business. I have a line on a running 2014 2.5L engine, pulled from a wreck. 

 

1)  Can anyone tell me whether this would play nicely with the ECM in the '99 Legacy 2.5L DOHC? 

2) Would it be reasonable to use this as a new bottom end with the '99 Legacy 2.5L DOHC heads and ECM?  Or maybe just use the crank and con rods out of this engine to rebuild the '99 engine?

 

Unfortunately, I still haven't pulled the bad engine out of the '99.  Maybe this spring, after it warms up.  It was -24F this morning.

1&2> That '14 2.5 is an FB25 and is not an 'EJ' series engine. I highly doubt it.

Edited March 16, 2017 by wtdash

[AdventureSubaru]

Totally differrent motors at this point. It's not even EJ series anymore.

 

You can make a decent running motor out of the 2.5 heads and the 2.2 block. You wont notice much difference. Just be sure to resurface the heads and use proper gaskets.

 

Or 95-98 EJ22 for a step down in power but a step up in simplicity/reliability.