EJ22 Salvage Yard Bait-and-Switch Ripoff. Ideas about how to proceed?

[brycarp]

Well, I took a chance and got burned. I bought a supposed 132k mile "A" condition EJ22 (found on car-part.com) that I paid too much for to refresh my daughter's beloved 222k mile '96 Impreza Outback. The current engine has always had trouble losing coolant, frequent P0304 "Cyl. 4 misfire" CEL codes, and now leaks compression into the coolant at higher throttle.

 

Yesterday I was able to read the VIN off the block of the salvage engine and get the Carfax. The last reported mileage of the '97 Legacy was 234k miles at a Grease Monkey oil change in Jan. 2015. And before I discovered the high mileage I had already determined that cylinder 4 has weak compression based on this simple test:

. I will do a real compression test (using a 4EAT and starter) and have numbers before I return to confront the salvage yard owner, probably Wednesday. (It's 40 miles each way from my house to the yard.)

 

So I'd love to get suggestions on strategy for the situation. Some various points:

• The engine has not yet been installed or run.
• All of this is happening in the "Colorado Front Range" area. (Denver metro and north)
• The receipt I got says "Warranty Limited to Exchange, Unless One Cannot Be Provided, Refusal of Exchange or Return of Unneeded Parts Shall be Limited to In Store Credit Only." so I guess the best I can hope for is that they actually have an engine that is verifiably somewhere near as good as the one they listed in car-part.com and are willing to do the exchange. I suspect that they are simply bait-and-switching as a way of business. (The engine wasn't really a direct match for my Impreza either, but I was willing to just use the block and heads to work around that.)
• After I discovered the weak cylinder, I already took the engine the 80-mile round trip to point out the low compression. The owner continued to contend that it was a good engine and was running before they pulled it. (Of course "running" is not what I paid as much as I did for.) At that time I still wasn't sure which cylinder was low. Later I got a compression tester and I know it's cylinder 4. The owner even went as far as doing a "parlor trick" of sticking some kind of plastic caps in each of the 4 spark plug holes, and demonstrating that he could make them "pop" and shoot out by turning the engine. Obviously proves nothing.
• Just using a wrench and my arm with the compression tester, I was able to register 40-50 PSI on the three good cylinders, but never more than 20 PSI on cylinder 4.
• The yard has a "BBB Accredited Business" logo on their Web site, and "BBB Rating: A". I realize that not much is required to get a rating like that. Anyone know how I might use BBB and not end up with a "he said - he said" situation where the owner denies that I had reason to expect a 132k mile motor?
• I know kind of "off topic" for this board, but does anyone know whether it's legal to secretly audio record a live, in-person conversation?

 

Thanks for any help!!

Bry

[DaveT]

A few things cross my mind:

Isn't it possible that they guy the got that engine from mislead them about the mileage?

I know that oil is for the lubrication, but I also have some recollection of it aiding sealing/seating the rings, thus helping with compression - so is it possible that for whatever reason [storage position not level?] that 1 cylinder has less oil?  It probably would take a fair amount of cranking to be sure oil is distributed everywhere.  Unless it's only been a short time since it was run?

Popping the caps out, yeah, not impressed.  Ok, it's more or less functioning, but far from any kind of accurate evaluation.  I never did a low speed compression test by hand, so I can't say what's normal for that.

I'd think the mileage discrepancy would / should qualify you for a 2nd try or reduced price.

The legality of the recording may vary by state, so check locally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fairtax4me]

Entirely possible the engine came from a car with 132k on it. The engine was swapped at some point, and the yard didn't check/compare the vin on the engine block to the car.

 

I don't see why you wouldn't just put some head gaskets on yours and keep driving it. It's a weekend job.

[MR_Loyale]

Check your state attorney general website for more information on remedies you have.

 

Also BBB has a dispute resolution process: https://www.bbb.org/bbb-dispute-handling-and-resolution/

 

In the future it might be best to check the VIN before your write the check.  On that note, how did you pay? If check or card, you can stop payment,  If the guy truly believes the engine is that great, he should be willing to exchange it. What has he got to lose if it is a good engine?

[heartless]

I had a similar situation with a transmission. the JY insisted it was a good tranny - drove 3.5hrs one way to go get it, paid way too much for it (imho) and brought it back to a reputable shop to install...had a 30 day exchange warranty (similar to what you described).

During the test drive after installation, the tranny had a major failure - completely locked up. Called the JY to find out how to get an exchange, or refund, or whatever - the JY owner insisted the shop must have done something wrong to damage the tranny... We played phone tag and games for 2 weeks on this - they insisted on seeing video of fluid flow (which they got, it was fine), and other BS...all the while insisting the shop was at fault for the failure. In short, they were not going to honor the so called warranty.

I finally gave up (after the 30 days was up), ate the damned cost of that one, bought another from a member here at a fraction of what the 1st one cost, had it installed, and have been happily driving the car for a couple of years.

[brycarp]

I just got the cold compression test run. All spark plugs out, using a starter to crank. Powered by pretty beefy and not too long jumper cables from my running Chevy  Tahoe.

 

Cylinders 1-3: at least 150 PSI.

Cylinder 4: The most it could manage was 45 PSI.

 

A few responses to the comments so far:

 

DaveT, yes, a "wet" compression test is a thing, where some small amount of oil is put into the cylinder to help the rings seal. It's something that's done when you have low compression and are trying to find out what is responsible. I guess it's possible that some part of the compression difference is due to unequal oil wetting, but I don't want to pursue that theory.

 

Fairtax4me: I may yet do exactly what you suggest. My thought process at the time was that the existing engine was already kinda "pushing it" on miles being at 222k, so I would opt for a nice, much lower mileage swap engine and hopefully take care of the coolant loss/P0304/compression leak as well. But now with all that's going on I could very well end up doing the HG job on the existing motor and see what happens.

 

Thanks to all!

Bry

[Fairtax4me]

I wouldn't think twice about an Ej22 with 220k on it. The two I have are at 256k and 261k.

[idosubaru]

*engines have the vin on them?

 

Id try to talk to them in person, so much easier to dismiss over the phone sometimes.

 

1. Give the shop a chance and approach them with a decent inquisitive (rather than accusative) attitude. So far so good you're actually testing the engine thoroughly.

 

Shops have to deal with a lot of hack diagnosis and suggestions that are absurd so I wouldn't be too discouraged by initial resistance/suggestions.

 

2. Most warranties I'm aware of require install by a certified mechanic/shop.reasonable places bend on this point but this seems unlikely here. So you might need to spend $500 to get your engine replaced - and the shop isn't going to warranty a bad engine so you may be stuck legally speaking by trying to DIY this.

 

Good luck that sucks.

[idosubaru]

Go grab the listing off of car-part.com if it's still there.

[WoodsWagon]

I wouldn't think twice about an Ej22 with 220k on it. The two I have are at 256k and 261k.

That's a phase 2 EJ22 he's got, not the same animal as the older EJ22's. I would agree on the older ones, my dad's driving one with over 300k on it and it runs as good as new. The phase 2's seem about the same as the phase 2 EJ25's. Not awful, but not great either. I've had a babied one owner 130k mile one chuck a rod 3 weeks after I did an oil change. It was still full of oil too.

[DaveT]

With those "regular " compression test numbers, I think there is a problem. What, you don't know until it's apart. Try for a swap / refund.

[idosubaru]

 

That's a phase 2 EJ22 he's got, not the same animal as the older EJ22's..

No it's not. Unless reading on my phone is hindering something. He said 96 or 97. Phase II isn't until 1999 for the EJ22.

[nelstomlinson]

If you can prove that they lied about the mileage, I'd suggest small claims court.  Also, maybe file a fraud complaint with local law enforcement?

[brycarp]

I got a full refund on the engine return yesterday. So happy ending, but I did put in quite a bit of time/effort/driving dealing with the whole thing. Now to focus on the 164k-mile 97 OBS EJ22 my daughter (owner of the 96 Impreza I'm trying to renew) and I pulled at a U-pull-it on Sep. 10. (Got the 4EAT too.) That engine had already had the intake manifold pulled by someone else, so did get some water inside, but I already pulled off the passenger side head and it seems fine in the cylinder. I was figuring to use the existing '96 intake manifold/plumbing with the other engine anyway, so doing that with this one should be fine.

 

That 97 OBS sounded like it was headed for the crusher in a few days so I decided I needed to grab the engine/trans quickly. It was what someone else on this board mentioned about a good salvage yard situation. The front of the car was crunched in pretty good, but not far enough to push the radiator into the engine. Probably the engine and trans were functional at the time of the event that sent the car to the salvage yard. The moment of extraction:

 

[brus brother]

Happy endings! And seems your daughter was probably a witness to the transaction and then the extraction from the picture enclosed. All good life lessons.

[bstone]

Small claims court. Especially if you live a few hours away and your court lets you file EITHER where you live or they work/live. They'll either have to show up or you get a default judgement. It's worked well for me in the past and I recommend it.