500Stroker Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) I recently picked up a 2002 Outback 2.5, 149000 miles On cold startup and hot startup (after the car sets for 20-30 minutes) I hear a fairly loud clattering sound coming from the passenger side of the engine. The clatter stops after a few seconds, like after it builds oil pressure? What componet would cause this on a OHC engine? I dont believe it to be a piston/ rod issue, noise is coming from the head. Any help would be appreciated Edited October 3, 2016 by 500Stroker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Valve clatter?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Could have a faulty drainback valve in the oil filter. What kind of filter is on it? Do you know when the oil was last changed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Could have a faulty drainback valve in the oil filter. What kind of filter is on it? Do you know when the oil was last changed? Good idea. Also, add some Marvel Mystery Oil and drive for a few days before changing the oil. The MMO is a good detergent product, and will clean the engine of deposits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 According to the sticker on the windshield the oil was changed approx. 2500 ago. No markings on the oil filter. Does this vintage of engine require zinc in the oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Good idea. Also, add some Marvel Mystery Oil and drive for a few days before changing the oil. The MMO is a good detergent product, and will clean the engine of deposits. How much MMO do you add to the sump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) No go, I changed the oil filter using a quality WIX filter and topped it off with a fresh fill of 10W-30 Shell Rottela. Clatter is unchanged, Got any other ideas? Edited October 2, 2016 by 500Stroker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I would put an oil pressure guage on it and see if the pressure is building slow when it starts. You should have 70psi about a second after it fires. If the pressure doesn't come up for 3-4 seconds that's going to cause your noise. The passenger head is the furthest away and the last part of the oil pressure feed, so it gets oil last. On the older cars the oil pumps had some issues with the backing plate screws coming loose and causing pressure to bleed off. Seems like that was mostly on the early-mid 90's cars. I don't remember ever hearing about an 02 with that problem, but it could happen. Might try pulling the oil pump and checking it over. There are some mid2000 cars that have had problems with the pickup tube cracking and causing low oil pressure. There could also be sediment or sludge buildup on the pickup screen blocking flow through the screen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 I would put an oil pressure guage on it and see if the pressure is building slow when it starts. You should have 70psi about a second after it fires. If the pressure doesn't come up for 3-4 seconds that's going to cause your noise. The passenger head is the furthest away and the last part of the oil pressure feed, so it gets oil last. On the older cars the oil pumps had some issues with the backing plate screws coming loose and causing pressure to bleed off. Seems like that was mostly on the early-mid 90's cars. I don't remember ever hearing about an 02 with that problem, but it could happen. Might try pulling the oil pump and checking it over. There are some mid2000 cars that have had problems with the pickup tube cracking and causing low oil pressure. There could also be sediment or sludge buildup on the pickup screen blocking flow through the screen. Cool, looks like a plan. 70 psi hot or cold or dont it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 70 psi cold. The bypass valve is set for something like 70 psi on these so pressure should get up there pretty quick with cold oil. At operating temp after running 30 minutes or so you should have 10-14 psi at idle (750 rpm) should come up at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm above that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 70 psi cold. The bypass valve is set for something like 70 psi on these so pressure should get up there pretty quick with cold oil. At operating temp after running 30 minutes or so you should have 10-14 psi at idle (750 rpm) should come up at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm above that. Checked oil pressure this am, cold engine, it pegged an 80 psi gauge in a micro second. I dont think there is anything wrong with the pump. I might drop the pan and look at the pickup. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Valve clatter?? How often are you suppose to reset the valves? Hot or cold engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Did you check pressure warm as well? I would pull the valve cover and check the bolts that hold the rocker shafts on the head. Make sure they're all tight. If the bolts are tight I would pull the rocker shafts and check the oil supply ports for obstructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Did you check pressure warm as well? I would pull the valve cover and check the bolts that hold the rocker shafts on the head. Make sure they're all tight. If the bolts are tight I would pull the rocker shafts and check the oil supply ports for obstructions. No I was in jam for time, I did not check pressure hot. I like your idea about the rocker shafts and ports. Do you know what the torque is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 the attached pdf is from my 2002 Forester FSM, but it is the same engine, so it should be fine for your needs. Camshaft.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 A tip I forgot earlier. Before you remove the rocker shafts pull the timing cover and set the cams at their timing marks. This leaves all 8 valves on the right head closed, and takes the spring pressure off of the rocker arms which makes it much easier to remove and re-install them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Well no go I did all the above and it still rattels on start up. And know it knocks until the engine is warm. When I had the pan of I moved the rods around and check crank end play all appeared OK. What's left? Edited November 12, 2016 by 500Stroker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 You're sure the noise is from the passenger side? Only other thing I can think would be bad main bearings or worn cam journals in the head causing the pressure to build slower the further away from the pump it gets, or allowing oil to bleed out of the pressure galleys when the engine is off. To some extent that's going to happen anyway, but worn bearings will exacerbate the problem. You could try an engine oil analysis and see if they find high amounts of wear metals in the oil. Otherwise, either swap the engine for POM, or just deal with it and ride it til it blows up... If it blows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) You're sure the noise is from the passenger side? Only other thing I can think would be bad main bearings or worn cam journals in the head causing the pressure to build slower the further away from the pump it gets, or allowing oil to bleed out of the pressure galleys when the engine is off. To some extent that's going to happen anyway, but worn bearings will exacerbate the problem. You could try an engine oil analysis and see if they find high amounts of wear metals in the oil. Otherwise, either swap the engine for POM, or just deal with it and ride it til it blows up... If it blows up. Passenger side rear cylinder. I can hear the knock in the intake port. Im with you, let it blow then swap it out. Thanks for all the help Edited November 17, 2016 by 500Stroker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Piston slap? doesn't sound like it. It should take longer than "a few seconds" to quiet down and you seem confident it's in the heads, but piston slap quiets down as the engine warms up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Stroker Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 Piston slap? doesn't sound like it. It should take longer than "a few seconds" to quiet down and you seem confident it's in the heads, but piston slap quiets down as the engine warms up. Not Piston slap. This sounds just like when you start up a dry (un primed) engine after you have just changed the oil. It may be deeper then the head. The inside of the engine is spotless. The owners manual states "SJ" oil, I am beginning to wounder if the lack of Zinc has prematurely worn out the main and rod bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 More than likely a lack of oil doing that at some point. That Gen 2.5 should have roller type cams, so no need for zinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 a 15 year old engine prone to headgasket issues has a really good chance of having been overheated before as well, they frequently loose bearings after overheating. Not long ago I could buy a blown EJ25 nearly any day of the week...probably still true, I just don't try any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mheatc06 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I have a 2005 with the 2.5 that I replaced with a 2001 2.5 and it started making the same noise after first start up. I pulled that motor and replaced with a 2001 2.2. It did the same thing after first start up. I changed the clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing and still has the same noise. I doesn't go away after it warms up. Both motors ran great in donor cars the day before i pulled them to put in mine. Any suggestions? The 2.2 only has 80,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Dust sheild on the bottom of the bell housing? I generally leave those off. Have you run it without the belts? Alternator, steering pump, AC compressor... Timing parts Exhaust heat shields rattling Last would be the trans Post a vid of the noise. Edited November 13, 2017 by Fairtax4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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