Lowering an XT6: what is involved?

[JLow03]

Hey guys,

 

I am at a loss on this topic. Full disclosure: I am coming from the BMW world, where I've owned multiple generations and currently have an E21, E30 and E36 M3 in my stable. I've lowered all of them with the tried-and-true recipe of H&R springs and Bilstein shocks, making the necessary enhancements along the way with any necessary bushings / mounts / etc., all widely available on eBay and from multiple vendors.

 

I recently purchased an XT6. I have owned Subarus before, but later model cars. Going into it, I knew things would be a bit trickier, but I'm having a harder time than expected of sorting out what parts I need, what works/what doesn't, where you can ravage from the Subaru parts bin, etc. The car has had its air suspension swapped out for standard coilover suspension with some combination of OEM components, most likely EA82 or FWD XT6 in the rear and EJ bits in the front. 

 

I do not want to "slam" this car or stance it; rather, I would just like to close some of the gap in the wheel openings and firm things up ever-so-slightly. Is there a tried-and-true recipe for the XT6 platform as it relates to lowering? 

 

Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance. FYI, I have not taken delivery of the car as my brother is storing it until I can drive it home, so in-person inspection is not possible at the current time. 

 

Jeff

[john in KY]

Custom, read expensive, struts and springs always works. Owner in Canada recently lowered the front by heating the coil springs. He reported he is happy with the results. 

[86BRATMAN]

Heating coils is a horrible idea. It effectively kills the spring rate. Just because one person is happy with the result doesn't mean its safe or that someone else would be happy with it.

 

If it were me, I would look into ground control coilovers sleeves. But don't expect too much from stock struts 25+ year old struts.

 

There are some not so expensive options that will work with some modification, such as Miata struts for the rear and legacy/impreza struts for the front. There have also been some people who have modified 08+ wrx stock struts or coilovers to work. Front is fairly straightforward, but the rear needs a small sleeve for the bottom bolt hole and stock ea82/xt6 top mount to be used. Either way you have options.

[JLow03]

86BRATMAN, thank you. 

 

So two questions come from this: one, is there a particular Ground Control model that will work? I don't see a specific application on their site - is there effectively a "generic" kit that is used?

 

Also, it seems like performance shocks are out the question. Is a fair compromise to try and update whatever bushings and associated components I can, then pair the stock strut components with the GC sleeves? 

 

I've seen some reference to KYBs working but nothing conclusive. 

[86BRATMAN]

I would call ground control and tell them what you're working with. They're generally good people to work with, and can set you up with a set that will be matched well to the car.

 

From what I've researched even stock replacement struts for the front of the xt6 are virtually non-existent. So you may have to go with legacy/impreza struts. Which are easy to fit, you just have to spread the knuckle mount point of the strut a little to fit on the wider xt6 knuckle. For the rear kyb still offers struts, which will be for a 4wd xt/ea82 vehicle. Don't get caught up thinking 2wd models will have a shorter strut, in reality they're about an inch to inch and a half taller from mount to spring perch.

 

Before you call ground control you should be sure which route you're going to go with the struts, legacy/impreza front struts have a slightly larger body diameter than stock xt6 so that could cause a problem with fitment. I had a set of xt6/ea82 fitment sleeves left over from a brat project that I had to get machine a bit to fit on legacy struts on my coupe project. Also find the actual curb weight, which I think is in the 27-2800 lb area on the manual xt6. And if possible the weight balance front to rear. That will be of great help determine spring rates to balance handling with comfort.

[JLow03]

Thanks again. So the car already has the EJ strut conversion in the front, and what we suspect to be EA82 shocks in the rear. I will be sure to mention this to the guys at Ground Control - maybe there's even someone there who has helped with another customer XT6 project. I have seen reference made on an old classified ad to a custom "Ground Control / Eibach" suspension, so maybe there's a template somewhere.

[JLow03]

Called Ground Control today....no dice. They said they can't help me! Is there another way to approach these guys? I told them what I had any I don't think they could get past "XT6" in the conversation. 

[idosubaru]

yeah most places are going to be clueless about XT6's.

 

**the rears are the only hard part.**

i think 4WD are shorter than FWD, make sure you have 4WD rear struts, i don't know what's on there, i didn't buy/install them, i only removed them from a parts car.

in the past - a few people have cut a coil and a half from the rear springs to level the car out to match EJ or FWD XT6 front strut heights.

you can also flip the top mounts on the rear struts to lower them a little bit - i'm not sure if that was done on those or not.

 

Fronts are easy - EJ fronts lower the car from stock and you have lots of options there - impreza/legacy sedans i presume will be the shortest struts/springs if they vary?

when you get yours - pull the 1" lift off the top of the strut tops (and mail it back to me!) they were on the car I pulled them off of, i left them so the car would remain level for the previous owner.

 

 

could you also close the gap by simply getting larger wheels - 16" Subaru wheels are a dime a dozen now - get a set of those? that's what most of us run.

Edited October 12, 2016 by grossgary

[idosubaru]

there's a few threads on subaruxt.com - i know huck has a good one too somewhere, but here's another:

 

http://www.subaruxt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13816&p=153489&hilit=rear+struts&sid=b019b0169a9d1c57268c709d0ba7ecd9#p153489

[86BRATMAN]

I'd venture to say if the front needed lift spacers to level it out that it has 2wd rear struts installed. My old xt had 2wd rears on it for a while and it had a massive rake until I got the right struts under the back. You can get 4wd kyb rear struts pretty reasonable from rock auto.

 

As for handling the situation with ground control, the closest match suspension wise to the ea82/XT platform is the 00-04 legacy or 08+ impreza . There have who have used 08+ impreza coilovers before, though posts about fitting them are few and far between.

Edited October 12, 2016 by 86BRATMAN

[Numbchux]

As for handling the situation with ground control, the closest match suspension wise to the ea82/XT platform is the 00-04 legacy or 08+ impreza . There have who have used 08+ impreza coilovers before, though posts about fitting them are few and far between.

 

That's true with full coilovers. Not sleeves. Also the '00-'09 Legacy/Outback rear suspension is considerably different from the Tribecas, '08+ Impreza and '10+ Legacy/Outback.

 

 

 

There's no good answer for this. There are hundreds of little combinations that can work, and they all will have a slightly different effect on your car.

 

 

 

 

So let's start with the basics. I assume your XT6 is AWD since you mention that it had air suspension. I don't *think* they made a FWD '6 with air, but let's make sure we're on the same page.

 

Do you want to re-use the struts you have, and just get springs? If so, we have to figure out what you have on there. As mentioned FWD XT6 front struts are shorter than 4WD, whereas FWD rears are longer than 4WD (FWD cars ride lower, but without the axle present, the rear shock mounts much lower on the suspension arm).

 

If you're looking for a strut and spring combo, do you want to go full coilover? Any preference on brand? Budget? There are so many variables here.

 

 

I've probably done as much suspension-swapping and experimenting as almost anyone here without going to a complete coilover setup. So I can probably point you in the right direction, but let's get some more simple questions answered before we get too derailed.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Numbchux

[idosubaru]

It's a 4WD manual XT6, it's been converted from air to conventional struts with Subaru units of unknown origin, he'll need to look at them and see if there are part numbers.

 

Correct - only 4WD's have air suspension, FWD is conventional strut/spring.

[Numbchux]

Cool, before I get completely distracted....I'll post this info.

 

Rear EA82 springs are 2.5" ID. That's the same diameter as almost all coilover springs, so you can go onto ebay, summit racing, etc. and buy springs in custom length and spring rates all day long. Stock EA82 wagon rear springs are ~190 ft/lb. I'm running 12" long, 250 lb/in Eibach springs from Ground-Control 4WD EA82 Wagon GR2s in the back of my XT6.

 

Now, I would say that's a little taller than stock, but I've had so many suspension and tire combinations on there, and it was on the bump stops when I pulled the air stuff off...

[86BRATMAN]

The 08+ impreza suspension as a whole is different, but there have been people who have used them on ea chassis. Huck's original frankenwedge is currently running 08 wrx coilovers in NC.

[JLow03]

So let's start with the basics. I assume your XT6 is AWD since you mention that it had air suspension. I don't *think* they made a FWD '6 with air, but let's make sure we're on the same page.

 

Right - as Gary mentioned below, it's an XT6 that's been converted. Once I get the car home, I'll be better able to report on the specific components that were swapped in. 

 

Do you want to re-use the struts you have, and just get springs? If so, we have to figure out what you have on there. As mentioned FWD XT6 front struts are shorter than 4WD, whereas FWD rears are longer than 4WD (FWD cars ride lower, but without the axle present, the rear shock mounts much lower on the suspension arm).

 

This seems like the simplest course of action, no? I'd love to go this route as I don't have a burning desire to build a custom coilover suspension. However, I wonder just how long it will be before the struts / shocks succumb to the more aggressive spring rates.

 

If you're looking for a strut and spring combo, do you want to go full coilover? Any preference on brand? Budget? There are so many variables here.

 

No brand preference. I hate to sound like a snob but I would venture to say I am willing to be a little bit excessive with budget to get this car to handle a bit more precisely than it likely currently does. 

 

I've probably done as much suspension-swapping and experimenting as almost anyone here without going to a complete coilover setup. So I can probably point you in the right direction, but let's get some more simple questions answered before we get too derailed.

 

Works for me - thank you! As mentioned, I am not looking for "maximum slammage" or anything resembling stanced; just a tighter handling car while also giving the suspension the overall refresh it needs with a modest improvement in appearance (i.e., less of a gaping hole in between the fender and the top of the tire.)

 

Thanks again - 

 

Jeff

 

Another thought - is it worth trying to re-install the original air suspension? I am a purist at heart....

Edited October 13, 2016 by JLow03

[edian727]

I'm wnting to do the same thing on my xt6. I ought the car with bad air-ride and converted it myself, legacy sturtts and spring in the front loyale wagon(4wd) in the back, sits nice and level just way to high. I'm going to experitment with different springs to see how it handles, I'll let you know how it goes. unless you get there first, lol. looking forward to seeing this happen

[JLow03]

I'm wnting to do the same thing on my xt6. I ought the car with bad air-ride and converted it myself, legacy sturtts and spring in the front loyale wagon(4wd) in the back, sits nice and level just way to high. I'm going to experitment with different springs to see how it handles, I'll let you know how it goes. unless you get there first, lol. looking forward to seeing this happen

 

Good to hear. Though I have the most hope in Numbchux coming through for us with some ideas! 

[Numbchux]

Alright, well, there's no point upgrading springs if the struts/shocks are junk. But I suppose that will depend on the condition of what you have, which it sounds like you're not quite sure of.

 

There aren't any new options for FWD XT6 struts.

 

EJ struts can be done with some modification, spreading the flange on the strut, and drilling out mounts. This works OK, but you don't get accurate or reliable camber adjustment.

 

If you swap to EJ knuckles and axles, you regain that camber adjustment, struts require zero modification, and opens the door for almost any brake setup your mind can imagine. This requires EA81 tie rod ends (look up for an '84 Brat). The shorter tie rod assembly makes for a tighter ackerman angle, which helps improve front end grip while turning.

 

 

So if you want to replace your struts, you basically have to go with EJ stuff. -'07 Impreza and -'09 Legacy would be closest, although newer would probably work, too. In stock form, the Legacy options generally will be valved a bit stiffer than the Impreza equivalent, due to a slightly heavier car. But WRX applications will yield more performance application.

 

Upper spring perches are all interchangeable, although there are a few different diameter springs...so it's best to match those. Strut mounts are very similar, EJ is just a slightly different bolt spacing. You can make it work with a file or dremel. Here's an EJ strut mount in my '89 XT6

 

As you might imagine, with such a wide range of struts that would work, there's a similar pallet of spring options. Stock takeoff stuff, aftermarket, etc. Not easy to predict how the ride height is going to work on an XT6, though.

 

Rear shocks. Lots of aftermarket, OE equivalent options available. Best probably being the KYB Excel-G (formerly GR2). If you want upgraded stuff, '99-'05 Miata Rears are a direct replacement good for a lowered application, and offer a huge selection of performance options. They use larger diameter springs, which mean you pretty much have to use coilover sleeves. The larger spring perch on these might be an issue with wide tire clearance, but it's easy enough to cut or bend it out of the way.

 

 

As I mentioned, there's a ton of options for EJ front strut/spring combinations. Most of the Legacy/Impreza options are going to be pretty close to stock XT6 height, maybe a bit taller if it's for a heavier model, so you could grab lowering springs for them and use that and do pretty well.

 

Also, again, stock EA82 rear springs are 2.5" ID, so you can just buy coilover springs in whatever length and spring rate you want. 

 

 

If you want to dial in your ride height, you may want to get coilover sleeves. Ground-Control is a great option, I love the little machined upper spring perches that they include, and high-quality Eibach springs. Assuming they still make them like they used to, the lower spring perch adjustment uses a stainless set screw into an aluminum housing, use lots of anti-seize on that, as the dissimilar metals can chemically weld.

 

I called Ground-Control (in 2008) and got a kit that was fronts for an Impreza and rears for a Miata. In hindsight, I would have used 7" front springs, too, as I ended up running them as low as they would go. Also, the mockup picture in that post is a Miata front shock. This would have been fine for a stock or a bit taller ride height, but for lowered, use the rears.

 

Also, that was for an EA82 with the 5-lug swap. With the heavier 6-cyl in front, I'd use the same spring rates front and rear. 250-275 is a good ballpark.

 

You can get super cheap coilover sleeve kits on ebay and similar, but they don't always use a 2.5" spring (larger than that won't really fit in the rear wheel well). Sometimes they don't come with any upper mount, or it's just a plastic insert (which works decently, just remember it's only to keep the spring centered, the stock spring perch must remain to hold the weight). And very rarely do they list spring rates (and usually they're very stiff to allow the typical buyer of those kits to lower their cars as much as possible).

 

 

My current XT6 is running:

Front: '92 Legacy knuckles/hubs/axles/spring perches and strut mounts. EA81 tie rod ends. '94 Turbo Legacy front brakes and KYB GR2s. '02 WRX 5MT Sedan front spring (smaller diameter than the upper perches...not a great fit, but it works).

 

Rear: KYB 341065 shocks (EA82 4WD Rear), 12x2.5" 250 lb/in Eibach springs, Stock XT6 rotors/pads/brackets, '88 Nissan 200SX rear calipers.

 

Also '92 Legacy ebrake handle and cables.

 

 

 

No, don't put the air back in. The air bags function like a very progressive spring, yielding the worst combination of sluggish response and crummy ride. I had the rear sway bar off mine for an unrelated issue, and you couldn't tell with the air on, but it made a big difference when I swapped to coils (meaning the air suspension didn't allow enough travel to even load the sway bar).

[edian727]

theres a wealth of knowledge, thank you. i did switch the hubs over to ej stuff(i have 2-pot forester brakes) as i didnt feel comfortable with the way the ej stuff fit the xt6 hub. definatly go with ea81 tie-rod ends, i had stock ones and the alignment guy couldn't get it straight just close. also worth noting, i have 02-03 wrx wheels, and the fit great except front tires rub on the front and back at full turn, and the rears touch the springs at full up travel. no noticable wear on tires but id recommend a lower offset wheels if you plan on changing them. i had to to clear the bigger brakes. the offset on those is 53 and 6.5 inches wide for reference.

[Numbchux]

theres a wealth of knowledge, thank you. i did switch the hubs over to ej stuff(i have 2-pot forester brakes) as i didnt feel comfortable with the way the ej stuff fit the xt6 hub. definatly go with ea81 tie-rod ends, i had stock ones and the alignment guy couldn't get it straight just close. also worth noting, i have 02-03 wrx wheels, and the fit great except front tires rub on the front and back at full turn, and the rears touch the springs at full up travel. no noticable wear on tires but id recommend a lower offset wheels if you plan on changing them. i had to to clear the bigger brakes. the offset on those is 53 and 6.5 inches wide for reference.

 

What size tires? I've run GD WRX (16x6.5 +55) wheels on both my XT6s. The only time I had issue with rubbing was with 225/55r16s on them. 205/50, 205/55, and 215/55, no problem.

[edian727]

225 50/16 is whats on it, must be 225 are a little wide. i really like this tire size so im gonna go lower offset(eventually), great to know 205's in 50 and 55 profile fit, super common and cheap tires.