Battle of the 2.2's: 83mm stroker EJ205 vs. built EJ22

[4URABUS]

I've got over 166K miles on my mostly-original 2004 WRX. I love the combination of midrange/topend power and fuel economy of my stock set-up, but have always been disappointed by the lack of off-boost torque. Since I'm going to need to replace the clutch within the next couple of years, I was wondering about which would be the best combination of parts to give me that putting-around-town tractor-like grunt that I desire.

 

At first I was thinking about stroking my EJ205 with a stock-stroke EJ257 crank and rods, using Mahle pistons to give me a "2.2" liter stroker engine. I hear it's really popular and cost-effective, but after finding out that it only gives slightly more than 2.1 liters, I was a little disappointed. Call me crazy, but I'm looking to hit that magic 2.2 liter figure.

 

After doing some more research, I noticed that the EJ25 guys were using 83mm stroker cranks to get a boost in cc's. After using an engine displacement calculator available on the 'net, I discovered that a .5mm overbore on my stock block along with an 83mm crank would get me that magic figure that I desire. I understand that no one makes off-the-shelf pistons for such a beast, but I'm willing to spend the money on custom pistons to achieve my goal. However, instead of buying an expensive 83mm billet stroker crank, I was planning on having a stock new USDM STI crankshaft welded and offset ground to either 82 or 83 millimeters, which ever figure gives me the best ring pack location on a set of custom slugs.

 

Finally, it recently occurred to me that a Phase II EJ22 N/A block would very easily get me at that coveted 2.2 liter displacement figure that I crave. Basically, I would gut the case out into a scrap pile, bore it .5mm to clean it up, and fill it with a new EJ205 crank, EJ257 rods, and custom pistons to give me pretty-much the same compression ratio as the stock EJ205 engine. Top it off with my stock EJ205 heads and I'm in business.

 

So here's my ultimate goal: Subaru rated my car at 227hp at the flywheel when it was new. I want to make that number at the wheels, so I figure that about 300hp at the crank is what it will take to get there. I don't want to put my recently-rebuilt EJ205 heads on an EJ257 shortblock (too much static compression), I don't want to swap the turbo (I'm happy with the stock 15psi of boost), and I don't want to swap camshafts (I don't want to spend over a grand on bumpsticks alone). Oh, and one final thing: when I pop the hood, I want everything to look completely stock from the top view of the engine. I'm willing to go with a stealthback exhaust and eliminate all my cats, but I want to keep the stock 2004 WRX twin-tip axle back muffler.

 

So which way should I go? Also, what supporting mods besides the new Cobb Accessport V3 will I need to make this car a reliable daily driver?

[matt167]

FWIW, The STI crank is nothing special. Just an EJ25 crank. All Subaru crankshafts are forged, and otherwise the same. EJ255/257 rods are shorter than N/A rods.. I'm not sure on the length of the EJ25D rods but, the rods are 48mm. you could offset grind a phase 2 crank to use the 25d rods and get some displacement, but not much

 

You can go to 9:1 compression without much thought. You just need to adjust timing retard. JDM 205's are 9:1. They have better fuel but they still live on US gas, and your TD04 is probably pooched by now so your getting late boost.

[wtdash]

Hi,

Since $ is not an 'object' and you're much more knowledgeable about engine internals than I, this is probably  not your 1st choice, but putting your 205 heads on a '90-'98 Phase 1 EJ22e has been done w/a fair amount of success, too.

 

If you're not allergic to NASIOC there are threads/posts about its good/bad qualities.

 

I'd also suggest replacing the TD04...not for more power but before it decides to contribute extra metal to your engine.  There are still a few low mileage ones from an '04-'08 Forester, BAJA, in addition to your WRX, on ebay, NASIOC, etc.

 

 

GL,

TD

 

p.s. and the off-boost torque was even worse w/the 4EAT I had on my '02 WRX EVEN WITH the IPT TC and VB upgrades. :-(

Edited November 4, 2016 by wtdash

[Quidam]

The trend today is small bore long stroke.

 

At first I was thinking about stroking my EJ205 with a stock-stroke EJ257 crank and rods, using Mahle pistons to give me a "2.2" liter stroker engine. I hear it's really popular and cost-effective, but after finding out that it only gives slightly more than 2.1 liters, I was a little disappointed. Call me crazy, but I'm looking to hit that magic 2.2 liter figure

 

among manufacturers

[86BRATMAN]

Stock longblock ej205's can near 250-275 horsepower at the wheels with a vf39, bigger injectors, sti tmic, and a solid tune. A built motor for 227 whp is absurd.

Edited November 5, 2016 by 86BRATMAN

[4URABUS]

Hi,

Since $ is not an 'object' and you're much more knowledgeable about engine internals than I, this is probably  not your 1st choice, but putting your 205 heads on a '90-'98 Phase 1 EJ22e has been done w/a fair amount of success, too.

 

If you're not allergic to NASIOC there are threads/posts about its good/bad qualities.

Since I originally created this post, I've picked up a Phase II EJ22 shortblock with a spun rod bearing. Why pick a Phase I over a Phase II? Just curious.

[wtdash]

 

Why pick a Phase I over a Phase II? Just curious.

My info states lower CR and the pistons may be stronger- esp. the '90-'96 versions. But you don't get the better oil flow of the PII.

 

And there are a lot more of the PI out there to 'play with'.

Edited November 16, 2016 by wtdash

[86BRATMAN]

Phase 2 is also better in that they have the #5 thrust bearing location. That block would be my choice if I was going to build a forged open deck ej22. You have to change the pistons though to achieve lover compression, with the phase 2 ej22 pistons and ej205 heads you'll have a 10.1:1 compression engine.

[4URABUS]

Stock longblock ej205's can near 250-275 horsepower at the wheels with a vf39, bigger injectors, sti tmic, and a solid tune. A built motor for 227 whp is absurd.

Being that my stock longblock now has over 168K miles on it, I'd think that it'd be too tired to support that much hp without a rebuild. Since I got the EJ22 core for free, and I'm buying a brand-new STI crank and rods next month for dirt cheap, I figured that building a stroker instead of a stocker was a smarter way to go. 

[quadrozontal]

 Why not use the EJ22t block, it's a closed deck block,  it's one of the strongest if not the strongest block Subaru ever made. It's a 2.2 and it's a turbo so it is already set up with low compression pistons, slap on some WRX heads and call it a day.

Edited December 23, 2016 by quadrozontal

[Caboobaroo]

 

Why not use the EJ22t block, it's a closed deck block, it's one of the strongest if not the strongest block Subaru ever made. It's a 2.2 and it's a turbo so it is already set up with low compression pistons, slap on some WRX heads and call it a day.

[Caboobaroo]

Why not use the EJ22t block, it's a closed deck block, it's one of the strongest if not the strongest block Subaru ever made. It's a 2.2 and it's a turbo so it is already set up with low compression pistons, slap on some WRX heads and call it a day.

The EJ22T is a phase 1 engine. Has the thrust bearing located in the #3 main vs. the phase 2 which has it located in #5. In order to run the EJ22T block, it needs to be adapted for the #5 thrust and whatever phase 2 crank you're going to run also needs to be adapted for the #3 thrust. Running one or the other gives the crank too much end play. With an overbore on the EJ22T and stoker kit, it yields a 2.4 liter. Check out Wiseco for their special pistons to go that route.

[PT_lover]

So I've got a Q... I have a 1996 Sub Legacy that has been pretty much put out of commission in that the powertrain is still good, however, the cost to replace the airbags, windshield, and exhaust far exceeds the value of the car. I'm wanting to rebuild the EJ22E that's in it along with all the other good driveline components. The intent is to make some extra cash from the car. The body is straight with no major damage beyond parking lot dings and the paint needs to be done. (Anyone need some parts?) My dilemma is, do I go performance and set up the engine for turbo? or leave it stock, hone the cylinders and just go with a good refreshing? What are your opinions? There's almost 400k miles on the drivetrain...

Edited April 2, 2017 by PT_lover

[wtdash]

 

 My dilemma is, do I go performance and set up the engine for turbo? or leave it stock, hone the cylinders and just go with a good refreshing? What are your opinions? There's almost 400k miles on the drivetrain.

Hi

First, please start a NEW thread (post) and don't add -on (even if it's related) - next time. This is called a 'hi-jack' and most all forums frown on it. 

 

2nd  - EJ222E: We'd need to know your budget, but assuming this is a 'budget build' I'd refresh the engine and keep it stock. You could buy some low CR forged pistons if you wanted to turbo it....but it's not a block built for high boost so you'd not want to push it too much. The rest of the internals on the EJ22e are already forged (just like the legendary EJ22T closed-deck block).  A turbo'd EJ22e  won't be worth (as) much if you do this as there's no direct Subaru that can be put back in.*   And remember any turbo engine would require Engine Management - as in piggy-back, stand-alone, or whole swap (as in WRX) - to run it w/out blowing up.

 

3rd - 4EAT: The trans is likely about dead, and rebuilding it doesn't make sense - @ least to me - it'd never be worth what you'd have to spend.

 

My .03 (inflation): I'd pull the engine, take the rest to a local salvage/wrecking/U-pull it and unload it, or you can open a Parts Sale ad Here  on ebay and/or CL (flakes  ) if you want to deal w/pulling and selling yourself.

 

 

 

* You might find someone w/a '91-'94 Legacy SS or TW in need of a replacement 2.2....or even a EJ205 WRX owner that needs a shortblock.

Edited April 3, 2017 by wtdash

[4URABUS]

My stock EJ205 finally crapped-out three weeks ago at 197K miles. It seems that the lower rear head bolt on the driver's side pulled the threads out. 

 

So far I've collected the aforementioned EJ22 Phase II block, plus a new WRX crank and a set of new STI rods. What should I do for forged pistons?

 

From what I can gather, EJ22T pistons won't work well because they'll drop the compression ratio below 8:1 when using the EJ205 heads.

 

I noticed that JE makes pistons with the correct dish volume for stock EJ205's (8.5:1 C/R), high compression EJ205's (9.5:1 C/R), 79mm stroker EJ205's in both low and high compression versions, as well as EJ25 block/EJ20 head "hybrid" engines in both low and high compression versions. How tough could it be for them to make an EJ22 block/EJ20 head "hybrid" piston with a 9.5:1 compression ratio? Basically a high-compression EJ225.

Edited May 8, 2018 by 4URABUS

[86BRATMAN]

Most piston manufacturers will do custom spec pistons for a little more money.

[dfoyl]

Speak to Michael Skeen at Wiseco (afaik JE and Wiseco are one and the same), he did my pistons for my (essentially) stroked EJ22 phase 2 which sounds very similar to what you are doing.

 

The only difference was I started with an EJ205 and had it sleeved to EJ22 bore (partially b/c phase 2 EJ22's weren't available here, but mostly because this way I have an EJ20 block which means no engineering certificate for local regulations). I have a stock phase 2 EJ25 crank (as others have said, there is no difference b/w an STI and non-STI crank), high-comp (-5cc valve pockets) Wiseco pistons, and it runs beautifully on 95 octane (which I think is US 93 octane, as our rating system is different than US). I also have Delta 2000 profile reground cams, which the 2.35L EJ20 can handle with no issue at all on stock ECU.

 

PM me for details if you're interested. An EJ22 stroker is a good combination.

[dfoyl]

On the 83mm crank, it's certainly an option. Offset grind your 79mm STI crank like Subaru did with the phase 1 EJ25, use EJ25 phase 1 rods to suit, and adjust your piston height. You'd need to check if you have to clearance the block, I'm guessing on an EJ22 it'd be a close thing. You should end up around the 2.6L mark at a guesstimate. Starting to get close to a FB25 in terms of bore x stroke...which would be a lot cheaper with an after-market ECU.