Intermittent check engine light issue

[XHighOctanex]

Hello there, I'm new to this forum as I just got my subaru loyale on Monday, it's now Friday. First off I have a 1992 loyale wagon 5 speed 178k miles new timing belt front what the previous owner said, it doesn't burn a lot of oil and leaks even less. I just put plugs and wires in which were old but definitely maintained well enough. Ac blows crazy cold, I put a temp sensor in since my gauge wasn't working, leaned out my throttle body which I saw a newer air cleaner when I went in. Has a brand new battery, I had to put an alternator in it, pretty newish tires, needs a rear quarter window. Paid 500 for it and then drove it home 120 miles right after. Anyways the car runs fine, needs front cv axles violently needs the passenger one as I finished it off last night and now the car constantly growls at me and sometimes it'll catch the axle and tug the car to the right. Again anyways the issue lol, the car sometimes idles high has only surged once all week and I've already put at least 250-300 miles on it just trying to clean the system out. So what I'm getting is a check engine light randomly, as in it comes and goes as I'm driving sometimes as quickly as within the seconds. On off. I've popped the cover off and got code 21 and code 23 temp sensor and airflow circuit. Code 21 needs to go away but it won't so now I'm expecting the other temp sensor is out or hopefully it's wiring because the other sensor is 150$. The maf code I'm also iffy on, it doesn't idle rough it doesn't surge it starts fine it doesn't act like my maf is dead or really even dying. I mean unless it's sensitive to know it's starting to die before it Really starts to die then like I can see it. Sometimes while driving I can floor it and the light will shut right back off. Sometimes it'll come back after a second and I can do the same thing foot to the floor and it's gone. I would like to smog it as I believe it'll pass minus that light. Anyone ever seen this before? I'm very new to this particular subaru and it's the first suby I've owned. (I've worked on newer ones at my dads shop a bit). sorry for the long post and that k you for any help. Also not 100% sure if this is the right area to post this I couldn't find a designated engine section, but I am on a phone and it's a little hard to navigate sometimes.

[DaveT]

This is the correct forum. Check the condition of the wiring, connectors. Check with ohmmmeter, voltmeter, wiggle them. Reading should stay steady. Otherwise, sensors do go bad. The CTS can cause weird varying idle problems, without a code.

[Dee2]

So what I'm getting is a check engine light randomly, as in it comes and goes as I'm driving sometimes as quickly as within the seconds.

 I had this problem. Eventually the light came on and stayed on.  Turned out to be the oxygen sensor.

[XHighOctanex]

This is the correct forum. Check the condition of the wiring, connectors. Check with ohmmmeter, voltmeter, wiggle them. Reading should stay steady. Otherwise, sensors do go bad. The CTS can cause weird varying idle problems, without a code.

I replaced the one for the gauge, I haven't done the expensive one and I do have a temp sensor code so that and the man will be my next look after I go through the wiring I guess.

[XHighOctanex]

I had this problem. Eventually the light came on and stayed on. Turned out to be the oxygen sensor.

Did it have a code for the o2 or did it come up as an air circuit like mine? I have a Matco maximus scanner at the shop that has obd1 adapters I wonder if I can get anymore information. I wonder if I can actually watch the readings like I can on newer cars.

[Dee2]

Did it have a code for the o2 or did it come up as an air circuit like mine? I have a Matco maximus scanner at the shop that has obd1 adapters I wonder if I can get anymore information. I wonder if I can actually watch the readings like I can on newer cars.

I did get the O2 code..  If not the O2 sensor then the problem may be similar, a sensor starting to fail.

[XHighOctanex]

I did get the O2 code.. If not the O2 sensor then the problem may be similar, a sensor starting to fail.

Leads back to that maf and the main temp sensor going out... That's damn near what I paid for the car in those two sensors lol. Gonna have to see if I can get them at a junkyard cars worth fixing.

[DaveT]

The good news regarding the life span of the CTS is that I have only 1 fail since 1988. Only a handful I've seen fail on the message board. With a new oem one, you should be good for 20 years.

[Len Dawg]

I seconded the o2 sensor...

[scoobiedubie]

Ebay is a good source for parts as well.

[XHighOctanex]

Ebay is a good source for parts as well.

Gonna take it to work tomorrow n try to clean my maf as good as I can if that don't help I found a new one for 90 on Amazon.

[XHighOctanex]

The good news regarding the life span of the CTS is that I have only 1 fail since 1988. Only a handful I've seen fail on the message board. With a new oem one, you should be good for 20 years.

How good is the rest of the motor? It's got 178k seems to run good previous owner didn't do great with it but he didn't ever use it much but before him the lady maintained it very well. I plan in going through the motor after winter

[XHighOctanex]

I changed the oil today and cleaned the maf really good, it idles closer to 800-1000 now instead of about 1200. Light is off gonna see if it stays off.

 

The good news regarding the life span of the CTS is that I have only 1 fail since 1988. Only a handful I've seen fail on the message board. With a new oem one, you should be good for 20 years.

I noticed that my car never gets very warm like I'm not even sure it gets to operating temp. My gauge barely goes above cold even after driving it quite a while. Could instead of the temp sensor being out could it just be thinking it's out since the car isn't getting up to temp? Heater doesn't blow super hot either btw. My golf threw a coolant system code for 20 under op temperature.

[scoobiedubie]

I changed the oil today and cleaned the maf really good, it idles closer to 800-1000 now instead of about 1200. Light is off gonna see if it stays off.

 

 

I noticed that my car never gets very warm like I'm not even sure it gets to operating temp. My gauge barely goes above cold even after driving it quite a while. Could instead of the temp sensor being out could it just be thinking it's out since the car isn't getting up to temp? Heater doesn't blow super hot either btw. My golf threw a coolant system code for 20 under op temperature.

Someone may have removed the thermostat or it is stuck in the open position.

Edited November 21, 2016 by scoobiedubie

[XHighOctanex]

Someone may have removed the thermostat or it is stuck in the open position.

That's what I'm thinking. I just ordered a cv axle I'll have that in today I'll get a thermostat here Wednesday and throw that in see if I get to temp and get that code gone. Would love to smog this thing next week.

[DaveT]

Oem or high grade Stant thermostat only.

 

The temp gauge is not great for absolute readings, only relative. I've had a couple where normal is maybe 1/4 of the non red, and others where normal is 2/3 of the way to red. Same temperature via real thermometer.

[TomRhere]

 

 

 

The temp gauge is not great for absolute readings, only relative. I've had a couple where normal is maybe 1/4 of the non red, and others where normal is 2/3 of the way to red. Same temperature via real thermometer.

 

 

Agreed.

Same temp sensor, engine harness, on 3 different engines in same vehicle, gave different temp reading on the dash gauge.

[XHighOctanex]

That's what I'm thinking. I just ordered a cv axle I'll have that in today I'll get a thermostat here Wednesday and throw that in see if I get to temp and get that code gone. Would love to smog this thing next week.

 

 

Oem or high grade Stant thermostat only.

 

The temp gauge is not great for absolute readings, only relative. I've had a couple where normal is maybe 1/4 of the non red, and others where normal is 2/3 of the way to red. Same temperature via real thermometer.

 

Well nice, I'll get a good thermostat and see if it changes and I'll check it with a thermometer. I have a new issue though that started actually before I did the CV axle (about a few hours ago) but I figured it had to do with the axle since it was already crunching. At low speeds or when I let off the gas and sometimes under braking it jerks hard to the left. Now I need pads and rotors I do have normal puslation I know I need to do but this happened a couple days ago when the axle finally decided to do the constant crunch instead of sometimes. Any ideas? I couldn't see anything that jumped out to me on the rack. If nobody can think of anything I'll start a dedicated topic just didn't want to clutter up anything if it was a simple fix.

[Dee2]

I would verify you have the correct axle because a wrong axle can still fit.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/73038-axle-replacement-for-ea-series-cars/page-2?do=findComment&comment=629117

[XHighOctanex]

I would verify you have the correct axle because a wrong axle can still fit.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/73038-axle-replacement-for-ea-series-cars/page-2?do=findComment&comment=629117

Well I can say right now visually the new axle the ends were larger looking. To where I checked the part number 8b003 I believe or something and it popped up import direct 90-94 loyale axle. But the problem was there before I did the axle. It's almost like death wobble in a Jeep feeling wise but it only pulls to the right and goes away when accelerating instead of braking.

[DaveT]

Bad CVJ improper fit can do weird stuff.

 

As far as the miles on the engine - It wouldn't be a surprise to find it needs a reseal job soon.  Time and miles both are up there.

Run it for a while, see how it's doing RE: leaks, oil, coolant, bad sounds.

 

If it sounds ok, I'd reseal it if it's leaking oil or coolant excessively.

 

A common thing to fail is the intake manifold gaskets.  ONLY use OEM - they are far superior.  Beware, the bolts are likely stuck, so get everything ready, run the car to get it up to normal temp, then immediately go after carefully loosening the 6 bolts and the EGR pipe.

 

It is important to check the coolant level and air in the upper radiator hose regularly.  If you wait to see the temp gauge go over normal, and it's due to low coolant, you are into head gaskets.

[XHighOctanex]

Bad CVJ improper fit can do weird stuff.

 

As far as the miles on the engine - It wouldn't be a surprise to find it needs a reseal job soon. Time and miles both are up there.

Run it for a while, see how it's doing RE: leaks, oil, coolant, bad sounds.

 

If it sounds ok, I'd reseal it if it's leaking oil or coolant excessively.

 

A common thing to fail is the intake manifold gaskets. ONLY use OEM - they are far superior. Beware, the bolts are likely stuck, so get everything ready, run the car to get it up to normal temp, then immediately go after carefully loosening the 6 bolts and the EGR pipe.

 

It is important to check the coolant level and air in the upper radiator hose regularly. If you wait to see the temp gauge go over normal, and it's due to low coolant, you are into head gaskets.

After a few hundred miles it hasn't really lost any oil, nothing noticeable. It was wet under it the car not on the ground but the pan when I got it but again haven't seen much new. I changed the oil today so we'll see. I plan on pulling the motor apart after winter and at least doing bearings rings and gaskets. I plan to keep the car for a bit and to go on some adventures with it. Would like it as reliable as possible. As to the pulling ill get under the car again this week and take a look at everything, it happened after I went through mud. So either somethings still got mud in it or the mud got something to let go that was dying already.

[robm]

I answered your brake question in its own thread, but here you say it pulls left?  In the other thread it pulls right?  Which is correct?  Either way, fix the brakes and test again, it will probably disappear.

 

Normally, the temp gauge on a Loyale is just above cold, maybe an 1/8" or so.  That is with a proper T-stat that works. 

[XHighOctanex]

I answered your brake question in its own thread, but here you say it pulls left? In the other thread it pulls right? Which is correct? Either way, fix the brakes and test again, it will probably disappear.

 

Normally, the temp gauge on a Loyale is just above cold, maybe an 1/8" or so. That is with a proper T-stat that works.

It pulls right makes the noise on the left sorry.

[XHighOctanex]

Same as last post if anyone was wondering, I got a maf and temp sensor from the junkyard today and check engine light is gone. Hasn't come back since idles smoother. It's a different style though it doesn't perfectly line up but I modified it and it seems to work perfectly fine for now. Gonna go on a good run up n down the freeway and see if the light comes back but doesn't feel like it. Also was able to get my rear window and the gasket I had with the car so I'm ready to get this thing legal in the next week or so.