Running snow tires year round.

[jseabolt]

My 2003 Baja has a whopping 78,000 miles on it. I've taken as good of care of it as I possibly have except this past spring when I over estimated how much a bag of mulch weighed. There was no weight on the bag just cubic feet. I should have taken a scale with me prior. No harm done but I came close to exceeding the cargo capacity by 50 lbs.

 

 

 

 

I have a bunch of collector cars I drive in the summer so my Baja stays in my garage most of the time during the summer months. The tire industry says 6 years is the life of a tire. Is this 6 years on a vehicle parked out in the elements or 6 years period? I tend to think UV damage will damage a tire more than anything. I replaced the tires about nine years ago with Michelins. The rubber still feels pliable. I would say they are a little more than half worn. Last time I measured the tread depth they were in spec. I actually replaced the original Bridgestone Potenzas a bit early because this is my winter time vehicle and I figured the more tread the better it would go in the snow. I ended up selling the used tires for $40.

 

I ran a set of tires on my Fiat Spider for 15 years and I replaced them because they got rock hard.The car did OK on dry pavement but the back end would get squirrely on wet roads.

 

Although my Baja does well in the snow, after one of our snow storms last winter the temperature rose above freezing and my driveway was a bit slushy and the car struggled a bit in spots. The next day I had 200 lbs of chicken feed in the back and it went better up the hill. So I think adding weight in the bed is beneficial even on an AWD vehicle.

 

Here is my driveway. BTW, I was in my Ford Explorer at the time. I sold it to my step son. Which I may regret not having a backup AWD vehicle.

 

 

 

 

Right here is where I struggled a bit, around this Poplar tree where the driveway goes up and makes a turn.

 

 

My question is, the next set of tires I'm considering for my Subaru are snow tires. I understand snow tires are made of a softer compound which helps grip in the snow.

 

Is there any harm in running snow tires year round? Even if they wear out quicker? Are they OK at high speeds? They don't shake at 70 mph?

 

Like I said according to the tire industry, I should have replaced my tires 3 years ago but I'm not going to do it because I've never had a tire failure from a tire due to age.

 

I have had two Michelins blow out on the rear of my Chevy van and I have no idea why. They develop a bulge on the sidewall then blow. Luckily the second time, the van was parked in my driveway when it happened. I think Michelin just makes crappy truck tires. Car tires seem to be OK.

 

 

[dp213]

It probably won't hurt, but some winter tires are made to run in temps below 42 degrees. So watch which ones you run if your going to run them year round. Also because they are much softer rubber, you need to watch the wear on them. They will go quite fast and if not watched or noticed you will end up in a bad situation when the road is wet and your running slicks.

[idosubaru]

I doubt a snow tire is a good fit here, and the poor snow trraction was due to 9 year old tires.

 

I would guess new all seasons with good snow performance are going to do way better than 9 year old tires. The picture you posted should be easily traversible with good all seasons.

 

Old tires perform terribly in the snow, good looking tread and all.. I've had tires not be able to make it up a snow covered mountain road here that should be easily drivable. Probably largely UV related - but there are other factors and age has never been known to help tires. 9 years old is ancient for tires.

 

Cheap non-studded snow tires only have the higher grade compound on the outer layers, not the full tread depth, and only have good traction 2-3 years before they start to degrade. If driven in warm weather they may wear down past the good cold-weather compounds quickly.They may perform good for one or two winters then be beyond the cold weather compounds and drive like regular all seasons.

 

I've also seen tires get slightly worse each year in the snow, i drive on roads that stay snow covered for extended periods of time, it's easy to tell. My parents tell me they love their bridgestone blizzacks but they notably were worse in the snow by year 3.

 

I've seen tires blow out because they're old. A member on here, had two blow out on him during a long trip he makes in his Subaru that usually sits for extended periods in a garage, but he takes to a Subaru show once a year.

Edited November 25, 2016 by grossgary

[jseabolt]

I doubt a snow tire is a good fit here, and the poor snow trraction was due to 9 year old tires.

 

I would guess new all seasons with good snow performance are going to do way better than 9 year old tires. The picture you posted should be easily traversible with good all seasons.

 

Old tires perform terribly in the snow, good looking tread and all.. I've had tires not be able to make it up a snow covered mountain road here that should be easily drivable. Probably largely UV related - but there are other factors and age has never been known to help tires. 9 years old is ancient for tires.

 

Cheap non-studded snow tires only have the higher grade compound on the outer layers, not the full tread depth, and only have good traction 2-3 years before they start to degrade. If driven in warm weather they may wear down past the good cold-weather compounds quickly.They may perform good for one or two winters then be beyond the cold weather compounds and drive like regular all seasons.

 

I've also seen tires get slightly worse each year in the snow, i drive on roads that stay snow covered for extended periods of time, it's easy to tell. My parents tell me they love their bridgestone blizzacks but they notably were worse in the snow by year 3.

 

I've seen tires blow out because they're old. A member on here, had two blow out on him during a long trip he makes in his Subaru that usually sits for extended periods in a garage, but he takes to a Subaru show once a year.

 

With the number of snows we get here, I kind of doubt snow tires would be even worth it. Actually when the snow was frozen, I had no trouble making it up this hill. It's when the snow was melting and slushy did I have any issues. Which maybe normal for any vehicle.

 

One year we had a snow and I was playing around in the back yard. The temperature was below freezing so the snow was hard and dry and I had no trouble. I didn't even get stuck once.

 

I don't know if this video will play or not but here it is:

 

http://vid222.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/turbofiat/Videos/DrifitnginaSubaru.mp4

[Fairtax4me]

The slushy stuff that has melted and refrozen is usually the worst because it's more like ice than slush. Like Gary said a good set of all season tires normally will suffice on an AWD Subaru. Modern snow tires are more expensive and they do tend to wear much faster than regular tires. People have their own favorites, but usually if I decide to buy snow tires info for the least expensive options. You'll probably only run them for a season or two at most due to the tread wearing, and the cheaper ones tend to have chunkier tread which works well in those slushy situations.

 

How long they last you depends on how you drive and how far you drive. I have bit of a heavy foot, and I tend to accelerate through most curves (but you can only accelerate so much with a 2.2 engine). My last set of dedicated snows lasted around 30k miles and I had them on the car for a little over two years, and they weren't completely worn out at that point. there was still around 5/32" of tread, but for snow tires they were done and IMO they weren't going to get me where I needed to go last winter.

 

The tire industry recommends replacing tires every 5-6 years so they can sell more tires. Maybe the Chinese tires don't last that long and become a safety problem after 5 years, but any major name brand is going to last at least ten years IMO before rubber degradation becomes a problem. One thing I have found is that many newer tires start to perform horribly in the rain once they're more than about 1/4 worn. If you notice that the vehicle is hydro planing more than usual, then replace those tires asap.

[idosubaru]

Some manufacturers say 10 years.  When will the labs start OTA?  (Used Tire Analysis) like they do oils?  Mail in a chunk of rubber for materials testing?

 

I'd be very surprised if new tires didn't serve you fine - look for something that performs well where you want it - i like to look at snow and rain/hydroplaning preformance. 

 

Good point - he obviously sees light usage getting 9 years out of a tire...though he didn't say how many miles?

 

How long they last depends on roads as well.  I don't get many miles out here with gravel, dirt, degraded roads.  People blow more than one tire at a time, there's so many "potholes" you can't avoid them, you choose to drive really slow or plan on replacing a tire or two every year or two.  I think i've replaced 3 in the past 2 years. 

[Numbchux]

Snow tires are usually comparable price to a decent all-season. I just bought Nokian Hakka R2s (The best non-studded ice tire money can buy IMHO) for our '04 Outback for about $100 ea. That's all kinds of reasonable.

 

I spent about 3 hours in the last couple days with the cruise set at about 75 mph on those tires. So yes, speed is just fine.

 

 

The main concern is wear, but the softer tread compound of a snow tire can yield some unpleasant side effects in warmer weather. Slightly decreased traction on dry pavement, and a little less steering feel. But pretty minor.

 

 

That said, there is another option. The Nokian Nordman WR or WRG3. IMO the best compromise between All-year driveability and treadwear, and winter traction.

 

 

In a 225/60r16 (which I think is the size you need). We would sell the Nordman WR (part #429171) for $90.99, and the WRG3 (#428637) for $101.99. Now, through our usual Nokian supplier, the WR is more available, but when I google the part numbers it looks like the opposite is generally true through other sources. But with a little research, you should be able to find a Nokian tire dealer local to you that can get them.

[idosubaru]

$100 for nokian happa's, that's not an average price is it? i feel like they were nowhere near that when i was looking last year. i ended up with Michellin's X Ice.

 

I had a set of cheap snow tires that weren't very good in the snow so i ran them in the summer a couple years ago, they performed just fine in the summer. I'm by no means a performance oriented guy and our roads around here are atrocious, so I wouldn't notice much unless it's obvious.

Edited November 26, 2016 by grossgary

[forester2002s]

I have a set of snow-tires mounted on their own (steel) wheels.

 

I put these on the car for about 4-months each winter.

I watch the weather forecasts, and put the snow tires on when the ambient temperature is below about 5C (40F), even if there is no snow.

The soft rubber gives good grip on wet roads, deep snow, and hard-packed snow.  I never have to worry about getting stuck.

 

These tires are now 8-years old, and I see no signs of the rubber getting hard.  Mind you, I keep the car in a garage at night, and keep the snow-tires stored out of sunlight when not on the car.

The snow-tires are noisier on pavement, than my summer tires, and I'm usually glad to get them off at the end of the cold weather.

[keith3267]

Tires are not supposed to be SOLD if they are over 6 years old.  That may sound odd but some tire dealers have sold tires that sat in their storeroom for over 6 years.  Usually tires are good for 10 years unless they are in a real harsh environment.

 

You can drive modern snow tires year round, but snow tires are not required to have speed or wear ratings like other tires.  A little local driving in the summer will not hurt them, but I would recommend against a long road trip in the summer.  On hard pavement, snow tires are usually a lot noisier than the all seasons or touring tires.

[jseabolt]

OK thanks for the advice guys.

 

I'll have to check the receipt to see when i had new tires installed but I'm guessing mu current Michelins have about 25K miles on them. 

 

Who knows, considering we have been in a drought this summer, we may not even get any snow this winter!

[matt167]

Tires older than 10 years are considered expired, and they can't be sold past 6 years of their DOT date. Tire shops can't do anything with them past 10 years of their DOT date and will accually recomend discarding after the no sale date for safety.. Date of install DOES NOT have any effect on the tire age and shops are allowed 6 years to sell them.. Tires start 'getting old' right after they leave the factory.. You'll see DOT on the tire, and then some letters and numbers which are part of the DOT code, and then the date code which is the week and year.. If you have a 3 digit date code, that means it is older than 2002 IIRC.. The Full DOT code should include the manufacture plant, a code for size and dimensions and then the date. So any tire essentially has a VIN number and can be identified where it came from and what it is. You can contact the manufacture for DOT decoding

 

 

Even at 6 years IMO, that's pushing it for tire age. You can tell and tires 6 years sitting in a store room, they look pretty shot.

[keith3267]

matt167 is absolutely correct.  You may have had the tires for 9 years, but they could be a lot older than that.  You need to look at the date code on the tires to be sure.

[Numbchux]

$100 for nokian happa's, that's not an average price is it? i feel like they were nowhere near that when i was looking last year. i ended up with Michellin's X Ice.

 

They were on sale from one of our suppliers, $10 off regular price. I looked at a few sizes, and they were pretty comparable to Blizzaks and X-ices in most, but for some reason, the Hakkas were much cheaper than almost every other snow tire in a 215/65r16 (maybe a more common size in Finland?). So I saved some money by putting in some research time.

 

 

 

Because Nokians are not carried by nearly as many shops as most, there's less competition, so the prices can be higher. But we deal with 2 suppliers for them (both local to the midwest...), and the prices tend to be comparable to Blizzaks and X-ices.

[CNY_Dave]

It can be tough to find snow tires with a really proper speed rating for the car- what that translates into is a whole lotta ugly during an accident avoidance maneuver.

 

Can be compensated for if you are expecting it, but it makes a tough maneuver tougher.

 

I had graspic DS2's on my porky gen2 LL bean (like a Q speed rating, really low), had to make a quick maneuver once- tail shook the dog about 2-3 times before I calmed things down.

[jseabolt]

The reason I replaced the original Potenzas was this was my winter car and wanted enough tread for the snow. Also they thumped really bad like they had flat spots at temperatures below freezing. Sort of like the way those old bias ply tires did back in the day.

 

When I replaced them back in 2007, they still had about 10,000 miles on them. I told Sears to through them in the back and I'd try to sell them on Craigslist. Also tire stores charge a tire disposal fee so it was a win-win situation. I figured if I couldn't sell them, I'd dump them off at one of those used tire stores late at night. LOL!

 

One thing I found out when it comes to used 16" tires is people will beat your door down for them. I put them up for $40 and I had about 20 calls on these tires before the end of the day.

 

I could probably charge $50 for these Michelins.

 

But with 17" tires you can't give those things away...