Kitajw Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I have a 99 Impreza L Wagon and I want to make this car not quite so slow. My transmission (5MT) has been rebuilt, and I put in a new center differential as well. So if it all possible, I would like to keep this tranny because I already have a lot of money into it. Ive been looking at used turbo motors on ebay and I want to know, what would be the best engine that will mate to my transmission? I apologize if this is a dumb question, but I want to be sure before I buy an engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitajw Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 I know that an ej20 engine from the same year would definitely work, but I want to know what other years would work with my transmission. I'd assume that the newer engines make more power and are better. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 What kind of money are you looking to spend? How much power do you want? That's not a terribly strong transmission, so I wouldn't shoot for much more than 200-250 hp. Luckily the turbo cars went back to a push-style clutch after about 2007, so you can still get a decent clutch for that transmission without spending a ton on a custom one. In that power level, you have several options. If you're looking for more of a DIY project, you might consider just turbo'ing the stock engine. With a few psi, it can even be done on the stock engine management (you sacrifice longevity a bit that way, but it works surprisingly well). Some sort of tuneable management and a good tune could make it pretty reliable (Subaru ECUs don't really like piggybacks, generally speaking, especially when you start talking about trying to tune the timing maps. So if you're not up to spending $1-5k on a nice standalone, you might consider a megasquirt). That's the route I will probably go with my Celica, replacement engines are cheap if I blow it up, the exhaust parts from a stock turbo car bolt right up, just have to figure out the intake side... In a similar DIY situation, there are some high-compression 4-cylinder options. I'm a big fan of 6-cylinder swaps. EG33 is a fantastic engine, but requires some fabrication to physically fit in the engine bay (longer, radiator has to be moved forward). EZ30 is a great fit, but donor cars aren't quite as easy to come by as the cars they come in are still pretty desirable. If you decide to go that route, go with a '01-'04 non-VDC car. And then basically any of the turbo engines from 1991 and newer would fit fairly well (bolt to the transmission, and motor mounts would line up). All of those options will require wiring a different ECU in there, either a harness merge for the stock ECU for the engine your using, or aftermarket. You'll need a turbo engine crossmember to clear the exhaust up-pipe. The '91-'94 Turbo legacy one is bolt in but getting harder to find, newer WRX and similar ones can be used with a little modification. Turbo Subarus went to an immobilizer system in either 2005 or 2006 depending on the exact model. If your donor is an immobilizer car, it's virtually impossible to use the stock ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Proably easier/cheaper to do an H6 swap and get 220-240 hp from an EG33 or EZ30. Buy engine, pay someone $400 to cut and label the wiring for you and then install it. Turbo's can't run off your existing ECU so they require wiring and custom work - it requires resources that arent' likely to happen. It all depends how much you're wiling to spend or capable of, we don't know what those parameters are. http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/t72808-aftermarket-forced-induction-thread-everything-you-need-know.html http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190530 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1613234 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1747178 It's best to enjoy the car for what it is rather than what it is not unless you're a highly capable, resourced, and motivated person (which is a very small percentage of people that ask this question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Turbo's can't run off your existing ECU so they require wiring and custom work - it requires resources that arent' likely to happen. This isn't quite true. It's not a great idea, but it absolutely CAN run, and will run surprisingly well. I've had personal experience with 2 2.2l Imprezas (one a '95, and the other a '97) that were turbo'd without any management mods for some time. There are ways to get it more fuel to compensate for the extra air. The biggest problem is the timing maps aren't really boost-friendly, so they're much more prone to detonation. And obviously the mechanical challenges of cam profile (you don't want any overlap in a forced induction engine) and compression ratio. These things make it less reliable. But depending on the person, vehicle and use, it can be a fantastic option to have some cheap fun. And even if you blow it up, 2.2s are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitajw Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Thanks for the replies, So I'm willing to spend about 2-3k to make this car perform the way I want it, and I don't expect anything over 250hp. I know it would be easier all around to just buy a wrx, but I really like this car, and intend on having it for a long time. I saw a guy swap in a h6 from a SVX, and I like the idea of having more power that's naturally aspirated. But I would like to do this project with as little fabrication as possible. As for turbo'ing my engine, that seemed like as much, if not more work than swapping in another engine. I know I would need heads from 2.5 series engine, for their dual port exhaust. All the exhaust components. A good turbo and intercooler. And better injectors. But that's the extent of my knowledge. What else would need to be done to turbo my stock little ej22? Could that potentially make more power than an ej20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Yep, EG33 doesn't fit without a little fabrication and creativity (I've seen some very creative ways that didn't require almost any fabrication, I've worked on a couple that required zero welding). EZ30 does fit fantastically. You don't need to swap head to turbo your engine, just need to have some exhaust fabricated. I've even seen it done so it goes up from the stock non-turbo manifold, and the up-pipe goes up behind the cv axle, which meant the engine crossmember didn't have to be changed. There's no point in going to the trouble of swapping heads to use all non-turbo parts. All the parts you'd need to turbo your engine, you'd need to swap in a turbo engine (turbo, intercooler, downpipe, coolant hoses, etc). Yes, it requires a little exhaust fabrication, but that seems pretty mild compared to pulling and replacing the engine, crossmember, and most of the interior to do an engine swap and harness merge. Stock turbo swap is not easy. EJ22t ('91-'94 Turbo Legacy) fits the best in the engine bay, but requires all the electrical merging work of any of these other swaps, and will not yield 250hp, no way. JDM stuff is cheap, but risky. Pretty hard to buy one that's in good shape. Also the wiring is very difficult (very few wiring diagrams available, and what's out there isn't very reliable), they do not have any on-board diagnostics, so much harder to troubleshoot any issues. Getting an '02-'05 USDM WRX wiring harness and ECU is a great option, as they're abundant (people part those out all the time), OBD II, and open-source tuneable. From there, you could run just about any combination of phase 2 turbo heads/block. But, you'll have a hard time putting together an engine for your budget. EJ205s are mostly blown up/abused. EJ255/257s are expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitajw Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Hmmm. Maybe I'll just appreciate the reliability of my car and use it as a good daily driver, and get a wrx as a toy haha. Can't ever go wrong with having more than one subi. Little off topic, but my friend was saying that I could flash tune my ecu to get more hp and torque, but I can't really see that making any noticeable difference on a N/A engine.. Are there any other engine mods I could do to make a bit more power, or is my car just gonna be slow without forced induction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 No-one has made a system to flash that ECU. And no, there's not really anything to get any more power out of them. There are a few things to shift the powerband up higher (lightweight or even underdriven pullies, primarily), which can make it feel faster, but generally speaking they just reduce low-rpm power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitajw Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Hey numbchux ya still there? I'm tried accepting the fact that my isn't fast and uhhhh.. Not working so well haha I've been doing a lot of thinking about turboing my stock engine as opposed to swapping. I found someone who is parting out a Phase II ej25 and I think I could get the heads for about $200. The dude says that they have new valves (skeptical about that). I found the turbo exhaust from a wrx on ebay for $96. http://www.ebay.com/itm/131952996457 Do you think this be a better set up than trying to fabricate an exhaust for my stock engine? I do want to yield more power, but I also want my motor to stay just as strong as it is. Also, I FOUND SOMEONE SELLING A 91 LEGACY GT WITH AN EJ22T FOR ONLY 500!! I've heard good things about the closed deck on that block and they're impossible to find on ebay.. Only reason I haven't jumped on that is because I'm not exactly sure how that would work, putting a pre-obd2 engine in my car?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 So you say your thinking about turboing your stock engine as opposed to swapping. And then talk about replacing the engine. I'm not a fan of the 22t. Phase I bearing supports are considerably less beefy than phase II. Oil squirters are prone to falling out. Closed deck means considerably less coolant capacity. #3 thrust bearing. EJ257 or 207 is the engine to have. The only advantage it has over your block is the compression is more boost-friendly. If you want to tear everything apart for lower compression, just get pistons for your shortblock. 25D heads flow very well, but the cams are not ideal for turbo use (too much overlap), and the heads still do not have the provisions for oil lines to the turbo. So if you're going to do it right, you need a lot more parts than just the heads (Not to mention head and other gaskets). It's an option, but apples vs oranges when compared to fabricating an up-pipe to put a turbo on the stock engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 he can run turbo the easy way. he has mentioned keeping it reliable and those two things are let commonly held together over the long term?! Username Redevil has some awesome information on forced induction with stock non turbo ECU. He did a supercharger but the approach is the same A separate SPFI injector is a simple way to dump more fuel. Google that and RRFPR for options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoyl Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Silly question perhaps, but why not simply replace the NA EJ20 with a NA EJ25 ? Is it out of the running because of the EJ25's history with blowing HG's ? Surely there are options out there in MLS gaskets ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 That is a good and easy option. thought it's different here, US vehicles were never equipped with EJ20's so it's got an EJ22 with 142 hp, so it would be less of an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 There are a lot of little things you can do to make power with any engine better cams would move the powerband around and make the power more usable increase the intake runner length for more low end pull bigger exhaust helps get the air out porting the heads makes them flow better raising the compression in the cylinders always adds more punch good sparkplugs to make sure you have a complete burn if you could disable the rev limiter it might free up the top end especially with ported heads and bigger exhaust using senthetic oil through out the drive train will free up some horse power to over all the ej2.2 is a good motor and there pretty hot out of the box I wouldn't expect more than a 25-30% increase in power and would take a huge amount of work to pull off using the 2.5 heads will lower the compresion wich is good for a turboed motor but not for a n/a motor I personally hate the 2.5 engines but they can make some good reliable power if built right but stock its junk in my opinion I really like my stock imprezza with the 2.2 being able to light up all 4 tires at 50 and drift around the corners up hill around slow traffic while going through the mountains is pretty impressive in my book but its not going to win any drag races my 2.2 swaped forester is getting the full treatment it already has the big exhaust and the 2.5 engine manigment system so its just porting and polishing and shaving the block and heads and some intake work I'm keeping the stock cams for now because of cost I'm expecting power output close to a 2.5 but with a better torque curve and more usable power I'll know more after I get it back together basicly a engine is a engine the theoris are the same so what makes better power on a Chevy or ford will make power on a Subaru you just have to use your head if I were you I would buy another stock motor and build it up then swap it in in what ever configuration you decide to go with n/a or boosted but the turbo changes the build to so make your desision then build to suit your desires you could always swap your old motor back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitajw Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Thanks for the replies everyone, and Merry Christmas! I've mainly been thinking of turboing my stock engine. The ej22t part was just a random bit of info I was throwing in lol. I just know they're pretty rare, and I've heard they're beasts when I comes to boost. Just wanted your opinions on it! As far as the heads goes I think you guys have answered my question. I guess my good old single port will just have to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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