Bad clutch (slipping) or could it be master/slave/hydraulic related?

[211]

2K OBW 5MT

Clutch was replaced once during the first timing belt interval which was around 100k. Now I've got a little over 200k and the clutch went from being good one day to being GONE in less than a couple drives.
What I mean by that is; a few weeks ago I was coming up a hill near my house and notice the RPMs come up but no increase in vehicle speed, felt just like a slipping clutch, thought OMG not now (dead of winter, its snowing at my place and I have ski trips planned). But then later that day I noticed that the temps did indeed drop and it could've just been an icy spot. Jumped in the car a couple days later and it drove fine. Took it to work a few times, and even drove it fully loaded up to the mountain without issue. Fast forward to yesterday. Drive it to town and immediately notice the clutch slipping.... BAD! Had to turn around and come home and I barely made it up one of the semi-steep hills by my house. I noticed when I did have to over-rev it in spots it would make a howling sound. My guess would be T/O bearing or clutch disc dragging from being partially engaged??

No real warnings (other than the single and only time I thought I felt it slip a couple days prior), no smells either.
Seems a little premature for the clutch to go out again on me so I'm wondering what the off chance that it could be hydraulic related?
I've heard of the master/slave cylinders failing and sort of bypass fluid around the plunger which can cause the clutch to not engage/disengage properly.  

Therein lies my question. Before I pull the motor and swap in a clutch kit should I rule out the possibility of it being hydraulic related?

The slave was replaced maybe 50k ago but the master is original.
 

Edited December 19, 2016 by 211

[1 Lucky Texan]

seems like therte's enough miles on the clutch for it to be suspect. also, wouldn't the 'default' of a failing hydraulic system be 'engaged'? and pumping the pedal might be required to disengage the clutch ?

[lmdew]

The clutch is spring loaded.  The pressure plate tension is released by the clutch.  It's unlikely that the hyd system would cause the slipping.

 

Make sure you check the rear diff and make sure the axles are fully inserted.  I've had a couple of them where one axle had popped out about a 1/2" and all the power to the rear was not going to the wheels.  Felt  just like a slipping clutch.  Two other Mechanics told the previous owner the car needed a clutch.  Putting the axle back in fixed the problem.

[Fairtax4me]

Clutches can howl, whine, squeal, make all sorts of noise when they slip for long enough and get hot.

Sounds like it needs a new clutch.

 

The Icy spot theory isn't right because that would cause wheel slip, which would mean the speedometer would go up with rpm, but the car wouldn't go any faster.

Increase in rpm with no change in speedometer = slipping clutch.

 

Also, original clutch in my 96 went out in almost the same fashion. Cold night about a week before Christmas. No prior slippage. Driving up a hill in 5th gear and engine speed started going up. Next hill it started slipping in 4th. Barely made it home in 3rd gear.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Fairtax4me

[211]

Clutches can howl, whine, squeal, make all sorts of noise when they slip for long enough and get hot.

Sounds like it needs a new clutch.

 

The Icy spot theory isn't right because that would cause wheel slip, which would mean the speedometer would go up with rpm, but the car wouldn't go any faster.

Increase in rpm with no change in speedometer = slipping clutch.

 

Also, original clutch in my 96 went out in almost the same fashion. Cold night about a week before Christmas. No prior slippage. Driving up a hill in 5th gear and engine speed started going up. Next hill it started slipping in 4th. Barely made it home in 3rd gear.

Good point on the icy spot theory. I didnt think about wheel spin/speedo correlation. 

 

So it looks as though I get to put in a new clutch for Christmas...  

 

Questions on new parts: 

I know this topic is beat to death but I could easily get the Exedy kit off Amazon. Free shipping, arrives before Christmas. 

HOWEVER... looking at Rockauto's options they have LUK kits as their crowd pleaser. 

 

First question: are the LUK kits any better than Exedy? Exedy is a little pricier but the shipping is free.

Second question: There are two different LUK kits for this car. Definitions of each are as follows:

LUK-15021 This kit is for vehicles that have not had the original equipment bearing retainer replaced or sleeved. Release bearing I.D. 33mm or 1.3 inches. If the bearing retainer has been replaced or sleeved use 15-031.

 

LUK-15031 Kit contains bearing retainer repair sleeve and matching release bearing;

I noticed the sleeve in the T/O bearing which I've never seen before. My last clutch replacement IIRC was Exedy and the T/O bearing didnt have this sleeve

Of these three options (Exedy or LUK, sleeved/not-sleeved), any suggestions as to which I should get?

I use this car like a truck sometimes. 3-rail dirt bike trailer loaded w/ gear and bikes. The whole works. 

 

Finally, third question: I'll probably replace the flywheel also. Is there a need to spend $250 on an OEM FW when Rockauto sells a LUK FW for $50?

 

Thanks

Edited December 21, 2016 by 211

[AdventureSubaru]

Exedy clutch and just resurface the original flywheel.

[nipper]

Sounds like its the clutch. If you plan on keeping the car for a while it may pay to invest in a new master/slave/hose for it too and be done with it.

[Fairtax4me]

Luk makes good stuff, have used their clutches in some other cars and haven't had any problems with them.

The sleeve is used if the input snout on the trans is worn. The snout is aluminum just like the rest of the case, so it wears over time as the TOB slides across it, eventually it wears a groove in the snout that can cause the TOB to hang up or engage crooked and cause clutch chatter. With over 200k miles there's a good chance it could use a sleeve kit.

[211]

Exedy clutch and just resurface the original flywheel.

If the $50 flywheel is equivalent to the $250 OEM one, I'll probably just get that. 

Shops in my area are few and far between for machining and for $20 more I can have a new one. 

 

Operative question there is; if the $50 one is equivalent...

 

Sounds like its the clutch. If you plan on keeping the car for a while it may pay to invest in a new master/slave/hose for it too and be done with it.

That was my plan. 

Definitely replacing the master and slave.  

 

Luk makes good stuff, have used their clutches in some other cars and haven't had any problems with them.

The sleeve is used if the input snout on the trans is worn. The snout is aluminum just like the rest of the case, so it wears over time as the TOB slides across it, eventually it wears a groove in the snout that can cause the TOB to hang up or engage crooked and cause clutch chatter. With over 200k miles there's a good chance it could use a sleeve kit.

So in regards to the sleeve. 

Will it hurt to just order the sleeved kit "just because" or are there additional steps I need to do to fit the sleeved kit?

[AdventureSubaru]

No. I would not trust the $50 flywheel over the oem. Not like it would explode on you but not as high quality.

[Fairtax4me]

The sleeve kits are generally easy to install. Some have to be tapped on with a wood block, others have a set screw at the base and you just slide the sleeve on, then tighten the set screw.

 

As per the flywheel. Does the clutch chatter now? If you have no chatter now, just run some sand paper or emery cloth over the friction surface of the flywheel to remove any glazing.

 

If it does chatter, then I would consider replacing the flywheel. The cheaper flywheels are often fine, they just wear a little faster than an original will. You'll also notice with a new flywheel that the starter pinion may make more noise when starting the engine due to having a worn pinion on brand new flywheel teeth. But as I said before, if it doesn't chatter now, don't bother spending the money.

[renillo]

Hi ! I just started having slipage issues ... , so bad clutch. 

 

Can someone recommend me one? 

 

http://amzn.to/2iXQFqb

 

http://amzn.to/2iBU0yK

http://amzn.to/2iBPKiO

 

My Leggy is a 1996 GL 2.0 SOHC

 

Cheers!!

[81EA81]

On 12/19/2016 at 2:19 PM, lmdew said:

The clutch is spring loaded.  The pressure plate tension is released by the clutch.  It's unlikely that the hyd system would cause the slipping.

 

Make sure you check the rear diff and make sure the axles are fully inserted.  I've had a couple of them where one axle had popped out about a 1/2" and all the power to the rear was not going to the wheels.  Felt  just like a slipping clutch.  Two other Mechanics told the previous owner the car needed a clutch.  Putting the axle back in fixed the problem.

You just saved me so much time and headache. I swore my clutch was slipping. Turns out it was just the rear axle. I still dont understand how that would feel like a slipping clutch but sure enough! that fixed it! thank you!