Careful Shopper

[SubaruMom22]

Hi all.  I'm not officially a Soobie yet, or, to be more accurate, my college kid isn't.  I'm doing legwork and research for him on a local purchase while he's busy with college and his job.    At any rate, I've found a Legacy Outback (are they the same?) that we can afford, but it has about 263k on it,  so I'm digging around to find out if this is a good deal, or a bad one.  He's poured a couple grand into his current truck in the last few months, and we're looking for something that's more reliable and better in snow and ice. 

[Crash138]

If its a good deal or not is hard to tell with the information you have given. What year? What price? Was the required maintenance performed at the correct intervals? Does it smoke out the tailpipe? Does it shift properly? Is there rust? What I have learned in my research as of recently is that timing belt change intervals are key. A Subaru mechanic on YouTube suggested every 80k to be safe, and to change the oil and water pumps, tensioner while there and it would lead to a long life and reliability. They are very easy to work on compared to other vehicles, and part interchangeabilty makes for cheap parts. The time I spent in Alaska, I have seen gobs of old Subaru still going, they have quite a following.

[idosubaru]

That's a ton of miles. Not a big deal if it's a one owner with maintenance records since new. But that's rare and unlikely.

 

It needs a full timing kit to be reliable. Timing belt, pulleys and tensioner.

 

If it's a 1997 or newer that almost nonnegotiable since those are all interference engines = $$$$ if any of those timing parts fail.

 

2.5 liter engines have headgasket problems. Good to know it's history and verify those aren't extant issues.

 

Best reliable Subaru you can get is a 1990-1998 2.2 liter engine in anninoreaa or legacy. They run forever as are one of the best engines Subaru ever made.

[moosens]

Don't find out the hard way on owning the early 2.5's.

 

Like Gary said , the early 2.2's and especially the 90-94 style cars. Possibly the all time greatest college kid/cheapie commuter car ever. That's not just hype.

 

Best of luck !

[SubaruMom22]

Hi again.

Great suggestions, all. 

 

It's a 2000 Legacy Outback Limited Wagon.  They want $2k.   It has minimal rust.  The interior looks clean.   Everything seems to work.

 

The timing belt has been changed at least once, I think around 86,000 miles. 

 

After they took it in trade, the dealership selling it replaced the left front CV shaft, a wheel bearing, brakes all around, plugs and wires, and did a basic transmission service.  

 

It drives really well, except for a slight hesitation when shifting from park to drive.   I didn't hear any weird noises, except for a thumping which went away after a few feet, which was probably snow and ice that fell off as I drove.  The CEL is lit.   There is a smell of burning oil. It has a cracked windshield.

 

I took it to a local mechanic for a quick and dirty eval.  They cleared the codes, which came right back up and are as follows:

 

P0327 - twice.  Knock Sensor 1 Malfunction Low Input ( Two separate sensors? Same sensor throwing duplicate code?)

P0451 - Evaporative Emission Control System Pressure Sensor, Range/Performance Problem

P0181 - Fuel Temperature Sensor "A", Performance Problem

P0420 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold

 

Obviously those are concerning, especially the ones that appear to relate to the emissions.   I've looked them up, but the information was not really enough for me to determine whether each item might mean $100 or $1000.  However.   Is it possible these codes signal a faulty ECM instead of actual malfunctions?  I would think with genuine problems as indicated, the car would not drive as smoothly as it does.

 

Additional: possible wheel bearing going bad; engine leaking oil and blowing back onto exhaust, causing burning smell.  He could not tell me without a lot more money exactly where the source of the leak was. 

 

I'm still looking at this vehicle, but there's no way it's worth what they're asking for it; I figure it's worth maybe $1000 - $1200 at best, and then I have about another grand to put into repairs.

 

Thoughts? What do those codes really mean, from a practical perspective?  If the problem is ECM, is that a reasonably easy DIY repair, or does it require an expensive shop visit?

Edited January 6, 2017 by SubaruMom22

[idosubaru]

You need to walk away IMO. 

 

I'm not recommending these but just for illustration, these would be orders of magnitude better options to consier than what you're looking at.  And there's plenty more out there.  Keep looking on forums, autotrader, craiglists, dealers - expand your willingness to travel to get a great deal/car.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Subaru-Legacy-L-Legacy-Wagon-AWD-/262794416714?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d2fc4924a:g:xSkAAOSwmLlX-s6D&item=262794416714

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Subaru-Legacy-Outback-/162195881034?forcerrptr=true&hash=item25c3a0bc4a:g:cCAAAOSwFe5X0YQQ&item=162195881034

 

You do want to buy RIGHT NOW.  If you're waiting til tax season like many other financially inept americans - you're going to pay more for less.  it may even be too late - dealers know it's coming and are investing in towels to wipe up all the salesmens drool right now in anticipation.  personally i'd try and wait til that season is over and dealers are clamoring for sales once again. 

 

You don't want to spend what little money you have on a car with lots of issues.  If the truck is costing that much in repairs - then that probably means you're at the whims of a local shop/mechanic who isn't cheap or incredibly talented at top notch maintenance and resourcing of parts/services/older car maintenance approaches.  

 

In that price range look for a 1995-1998 legacy or impreza with a 2.2 engine.  Base models are nearly worthless at this point in the northeast/rust belt but one oft he best vehicles Subaru ever built.  Very reliable and inexpensive to maintain. 

 

To the car your mentinoed:

The timing belt needs done - and all the pulleys tensioners as well.  If it, or any of the pulleys/tensioner fail (which they do), you'll be looking at a large 4 digit valve job or engine replacement.  It's an interference engine, at those miles you're rolling the dice.

That's a $500 - $1,000 maintenance at a shop.  It should be on the higher end because all the pulleys and seals should be replaced (and may take care of the oil issue)

 

The oil blowing back could easily be a very expensive repair.  

Oil filter/plug - that's cheap and easy but unlikeyl, surely the mechanic would have noticed somethign tha easy. 

If it's valve covers - then $250 at a shop.  If it's a seal or headgasket you're looking at $500...probably closer to $1,000 - $2,000. 

 

It is not the ECM, Subaru ECM failure is nearly unheard of anyway and those aren't the symptoms.  Those are quarter million mile, age, rust belt symptoms.  

Although to answer you're questino they're plug and play and super easy to change and cheap to buy used ($25-$50)...but they're only cheap because they never fail and there's zero demand. 

 

www.car-part.com for the cheapest parts in the country. 

[idosubaru]

knock sensors - replace sensor.  $20 part on ebay ($100 at dealer/store), 30 minutes to install.  So $100 - $200 total. 

 

evaporative - the canisters, lines, and valving needs inspected/replaced.   depends who long the mechanic takes to figure it out - $50 - $300. 

 

P0420 - fix the other codes first and maybe you'll get lucky.  technically you can completely ignore this code as it's benign, the computer doesn't even use that data point for drivability in that year.  but if you have emissions to pass or don't like the light on then you need to fix it. 

 

$20 fix - install an extender as a work around. 

 

Otherwise most likely $500 to replace catalytic converter.   A cheap converter can rust out in 2 years in your area if it's cheap and sees winter road treatments. 

[DaveT]

+1 what grossgary wrote.

[SubaruMom22]

wow. Lots of specific information.  I might have to rethink this.  Thanks guys! 

[dfoyl]

Legacy is the standard ride height, like a generic station wagon.

Outback is the lifted height version, runs about 2" higher. If you need it for your location, go for the Outback but otherwise you're just paying a premium for additional weight and worse handling.

 

From Gary's comments, if it was all done at a shop you're looking at $2k of parts & labour on a $2k vehicle that will be worth $2k once you've invested those repairs. I'd always take a rust-free car over a car needing mechanical work, but this doesn't look like a good deal.