Tee Koo Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 What is needed to do to get about 220-230hp from 1.8turbo engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 You put in a EJ20G and lie Really, you cant get that much HP out of a 1.8 Turbo, even with NO2. I'm sure there are some that will argue, but as far as I know no one has got there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Well that depends upon how long you want it to last. I really don't think an EA82T would be very reliable with that kind of horse power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 here is what you need in order of parts... Header TBE (turbo back exhaust) Spyderintake with XT6 throttle boddy attched some sort of Intercooler setup Clean fuel system ,good NGK plugs and good wires, quality cap/rotor for disty (for good measure) some kind of cone filter(i use an APC style 3 inch ID) bolted directly to the MAF/Air Flow meter A mega squirt and DIS system would not hurt at all (the DIS and MS alone would probly about 20 hp by itself on a 100% stock engine) run about 12-14 PSI boost high flow MAF/AFM to turbo pipe And the final key... The Delta cams....with the 260 profile for streetability still there, or the 272 for all outness. It can be done. It WILL be done, and it will be proven to be reliable as a daily driver. Tuning the timing is also a key factor on these engines...they are very sensitive in that respect...the NA's not so sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 And take a look at these threads: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10738&highlight=EA82T+performance http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15670&highlight=EA82T+performance http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17619&highlight=recipie http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17330 (look at my second post down a little ways....the recipie is there too) http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2550 (good information in that thread about high compression turbo stuff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHATBRAT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Lots and lots of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 $4G's top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myxalplyx Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Tuning the timing is also a key factor on these engines...they are very sensitive in that respect...the NA's not so sensitive. Whoa! Slow down there. I know that the XT6's ER27 is sensitive to timing changes. I was able to gain 10hp/10lb-ft of torque by playing with the timing according to dyno charts. I'd figure that an EA82 N/A would be able to gain 66% of this amount (6hp/6lbs-ft) if the same advance was done on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 there's nothing wrong with the displacement issue of a 1.8 Liter engine. The VW 1.8T in the Jetta runs at 180hp, with advancement in the turbo pressure, and a chip, 220 to 230 is WAY acheiveable. The reason why is because there is alot of good technology in the heads. If it weren't VW, I would say it's reliable at these HP. But I'm NOT a fan of new VW technology. Weird intakes and crap. They have 5v per cyl. 3 intake and 2 exhaust. btw. In order to get that out of an EA81 or EA82 you would need to make sure all the internals are capable, a cam profile that's pretty outrageous, lots of boost, copper head gaskets, really good oil + intercooler and oilcooler. Headwork like P&P, and an all out overhaul basically. Like WJM said, all the stuff. On an EA81, you could use those SUB4 dualport heads OR the RAM ENGINES dual port heads. They have dual port intakes BESIDES the normal split intake in the middle, and two exhaust ports. The SUB4 exhaust ports, you can get a 4->1 header, equal length. I'm sure someone could butcher that up and put a turbo flange on it and get a good turbo (garret T3 or a VW 1.8 turbo, or wrx or legacy turbo...ect.) I would say it's possible, but nobody of course has done it and proved it with dyno that I know of... I'm trying to get 250 if possible from a built EA81, but I'd settle for 200. Probably be just barely driveable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 with completely custom heads I could see the 200+ level with turbocharging, but on stock heads no friggin way. Then the 3-main bottom end is the next thing to go. Why spend 4g on squeezing the last drop out of an inferior motor, when you can drop in a 2g ej turbo motor that will make more hp reliably, and be done with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I'm in complete agreement with Bushbasher on this one. I also get the feeling that no one here has done any serious performance racing. I used to race F Production Alfa Romeos (1300cc 108 hp). After every weekend of racing we would pull the engine a rebuild it, new bearings, rings, seals and gaskets. Still with all that preparation I managed to spin a bearing and throw a rod right through the side of the block in one race. This was a non-turbo engine, so the heat was much lower and the pressure on the engine was less. I'm sure that anyone who put that much money and effort into making such an engine isn't going to baby it to get the longevity out of the engine. A stock EA82T engine with proper maintenance could easily exceed 200,000 miles, I doubt the you would ever see 20,000 miles (and I'm being VERY optimistic here) on such an engine without a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Well, I was talking to a couple of my new coworkers at my jobsite, and one used to race top fuel. He was discussing some of the reasons why he said that his dragster would last more matches, have less problems, and not need a rebuild for LONG periods of races. I'm not going to explain them now, because I'm incorporating them into my wagon's engine. But it's cool. And the parts/time *ARE* expensive for it. But it'll be worth it (to me) in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I'm in complete agreement with Bushbasher on this one. I also get the feeling that no one here has done any serious performance racing. I used to race F Production Alfa Romeos (1300cc 108 hp). After every weekend of racing we would pull the engine a rebuild it, new bearings, rings, seals and gaskets. Still with all that preparation I managed to spin a bearing and throw a rod right through the side of the block in one race. This was a non-turbo engine, so the heat was much lower and the pressure on the engine was less. I'm sure that anyone who put that much money and effort into making such an engine isn't going to baby it to get the longevity out of the engine. A stock EA82T engine with proper maintenance could easily exceed 200,000 miles, I doubt the you would ever see 20,000 miles (and I'm being VERY optimistic here) on such an engine without a rebuild. Tell it how it is Dr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I tihnk that at the 200 hp level, i could get 20k+ miles out of it with proper maintinace. I got 24k out of my 9.5:1 engine....but the shortblock already had 80k miles on it, and after the teardown, I found out that I was running it too lean with my adjustments to the Air flow meter...and the O2 sensor was not working right....but not enough to throw a code on the ecu....therefore burned valve and premature rings failure. Plus I had a problem with detonation ALOT with running on pump gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints7th Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Just like JonOfScio said, there are other companies that are getting that much HP out of a small engine. My Toyota Matrix has the 1.8 2zz engine and it gets 180hp stock. with the few mods I have done it is almost up to 200hp. A few people that have the same engine in their Celica GT-S have slapped on a turbo and are pulling 260+hp. but you have to remember that this engine runs like its on crack, it has a 2nd cam that kicks in at 6000rpm and doesnt hit its peak hp till its redline at 8500rpm. -Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 look at this thread too: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15350&highlight=xt6+throttle+body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 The other 1.8s that you guys keep bringing up are very different then the Subaru 1.8s. I'll bet those engines that are turning 180hp stock have strong girtled lower ends, forged pistons, and a lot freer flowing head, plus a newer fuel injection management computer. The last EA82T left the factory over 10 years ago, a lot has happened to engine management technology since then. The lowest hp rating on an EJ20G (turbocharged early 2.0 liter, in the JDM Legacys) was 200hp, and 220hp, the lowest WRX sedan version of that engine was 240hp and the highest 275hp (1996 special WRX STi Type RA). For all the money that you'll be sinking into an EA82T, you could be installing an EJ20G with 240 to 260hp, and have a very reliable engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 subarus are dogs, thats why they came with dual range trannies and the gearing to just barely go 80. remember this? http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10369&highlight=rx+dyno thats the highest dyno sheets i have ever seen from one =] sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 jon of scio i know how to make the perfect engine! but i cant tell you! =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Wow shadow...when we chatted i didnt think your post would be that informative! There you have it ladies and gentlment! I say to the folks who dont believe....just wait and see..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 thanks shadow, that'll keep me awake all night! I'd always wondered about the 3 main bearing issue, but no more! I'd suggest cryogenic tempering as a (possibly cost effective) tactic to add. Maybe an oil squirting kit for the undersides of the pistons too if you don't want to $$$$$ out for forged pistons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXTurbo Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Theres a bloke in Australia that has an RX with 286hp at the wheels. Factory heads. Goes by the nick of QikRXTurbo on the ausubaru message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Nice post Shadow, very informative, looks like you did your homework. I'm not sure that I agree with you on the reliability, yes on the daily driver, well maintained parts, but on the rallyx racer, I think 30km would be the high side, but only experience will tell the tale there. I would like to see the bench flow tests on the EA82T heads compared to the 8v heads. On the exhasut port issue, I would like to add that you only get one cyclinder flow pulse at a time, so unless you have a lot of back pressure, which an 220hp engine shouldn't have, there shouldn't be a concern there. I'm not sure what to make of your comments on the EJ swap versus the EA build up. For example, "If you are an aftermarket baby and can't fab up what you need for speed, get an EJ." Having successfully complete two JDM EJ20G swaps, one in an EA and the other in an EJ series car, I can tell you that there is a lot of fabrication required, especially on the EA swap, and there is little to no aftermarket stuff out there to help with the exception of engine management computers. I'm sure the people could approach the 200hp level spending $2k, but to get those extra 20 to 40hp will easily double that cost. Like I said in the beginning, great post, well thought out and presented, and I thought you were just a computer geek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 one thing i noticed about the ea82 is its a pain in the A to bust one apart with a SLEDGEHAMMER. seriously, i see that it has 3 mains, but its not like some little cap is holding it together, but rather a whole HALF AN ENGINE. i dont think an ea case could be held together with any more blolts! i like the ea82 myself, did the carb block with turbo swap, super reliability, no pinging, pump gas. if i were to build up some mongoliod HP engine, i wouldnt find it too hard to just swap a whole short block if i had reliability issues. does anyone remember the post about the modified combustion chambers? i think that with an spfi block would make an ideal turbo application myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 They do it with that exact turbocharger on the 8V 1.8L in the old VW Sciroccos. That VW engine has more restrictive heads than ours, but has the advangate of a small bore/longer stroke config. If I remember, they never made a turbo VW Scirocco. They have made a kit but never made a factory turbo Scirocco. My buddy has one but he made it himself......Saab 900 turbo:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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