YnotDIY Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) -----SKIP TO 2018 POSTS FOR THIS FIX------ Hey everyone curious if you could help me with something I've been pondering for a while concerning my 88 GL. Generally if I am in a high rev range say 3,000 and I let off the throttle the engine breaks really hard. so much so that my body is jolted a bit inside the car. I feel it most in gears 1-3, and less in 4 or 5, but it's happens in every gear. This is my first manual transmission, in other (automatic) cars have driven when you let off the throttle, no matter the speed, you just kind of coast. Is what I am experiencing normal for manuals or GL's or older cars? Is there something i am doing wrong like reving to high and staying in the same gear? Any advise would be valuable to me right now, I feel like I'm doing bad things to the engine and I'm hoping senior dog will last for a long while. Let me know what you're thinking. Thanks Edited December 21, 2018 by YnotDIY Updated topic to reflect actual issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naked Buell Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Does it feel like you are braking? Maybe you are not too smooth on the clutch and gas pedal action???? But I was taught that if you have a full glass of water and your passenger is holding it, you want to shift smooth enough not to spill any from the glass. If you use your girlfriend or wife, make sure you don't spill otherwise you are being slapped. Edited February 21, 2017 by Naked Buell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think sticky brake,maybe get out and see how brakes are. I use a temp gun if you don't want to burn your fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BratRod Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Yes that's normal. And it is essentially engine braking. Depress the clutch and put the shifter into neutral if you're just coasting to a stop. The key is doing this simultaneously with the release of your gas pedal. Always try and rev match. They syncos will do most of the work in the inside transmission for shifting. Lessen the shock of shifting by rev match. You can also let off of the pedal slower in between gears. Don't just kick it. Practice makes perfect. You're more than likely not causing any harm to the vehicle long as you're not towing anything heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 Does it feel like you are braking? Maybe you are not too smooth on the clutch and gas pedal action???? But I was taught that if you have a full glass of water and your passenger is holding it, you want to shift smooth enough not to spill any from the glass. If you use your girlfriend or wife, make sure you don't spill otherwise you are being slapped. Yes that's normal. And it is essentially engine braking. Depress the clutch and put the shifter into neutral if you're just coasting to a stop. The key is doing this simultaneously with the release of your gas pedal. Always try and rev match. They syncos will do most of the work in the inside transmission for shifting. Lessen the shock of shifting by rev match. You can also let off of the pedal slower in between gears. Don't just kick it. Practice makes perfect. You're more than likely not causing any harm to the vehicle long as you're not towing anything heavy. I'm not trying to shift though. It's more like...say I'm in first or second and accelerating to keep the pace with slow traffic. So I get to 3,000 in first or second and traffic is slowing down so I let off the gas without shifting in order to coast or slow a bit. this is when I'm getting the engine breaking or jolting feeling. Is it just me then? Instead of just letting off the gas at 3,000 and staying in the same gear should I just shift it into neutral and coast, then shift back into gear when it's time to move again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think sticky brake,maybe get out and see how brakes are. I use a temp gun if you don't want to burn your fingers. I don't think it's the brakes, but I will definitely check it out. I'm not sure what the temp to look for is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 What you are experiencing is normal. If you push the clutch in when you let off the gas, it won't happen. If your brakes were hanging up enough to cause this, they literally be smoking when you got to where you're going. Auto trannys don't have a direct couple to the engine due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter so when you let off the gas, it allows an almost like neutral coast down. With the clutch, it is directly linked when the clutch is engaged so when you lat off the gas, the engine drags down the tranny and the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Engine braking is way more effective in standard shift cars. It's the one thing I miss driving automatics. The lower the gear, and higher the RPM when you let off the gas, the more dramatic it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 New engine and transmission mounts will mitigate the violence and rubber band effects of on and off throttle. One thing older Subaru's have is TERRIBLE engine/trans mount designs. Replacing them with new ones will help. That said, it is normal to get engine braking on a manual. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Soob4ME Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Releasing the throttle as gently as possible will keep the jerking down, if you get good enough it will be a seamless transition. Engine braking saves fuel too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Engine braking only saves fuel on EFI cars, not carb'd. With EFI, after a few seconds the ECU goes into decel mode cutting the fuel to protect the cat. With a carb, the engine is still drawing vacuum, so it's still drawing fuel. The fuel savings for EFI cars is miniscule at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 sounds normal. check or replace engine/trans mounts if it's sloppy and severe or noisy due to this. i'm weird and will get belittled for this but i don't do engine braking (except in certain situations - steep snow or towing). probably a pointless distinction to consider but i'd rather extra use/wear be on brake pads than shifter bushings, linkages, synchro's, trans, engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Soob4ME Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The fuel savings for EFI cars is miniscule at best. It's actually pretty noticeable in hilly areas. I can get 28mpg with a 2000 Outback with 260,000 miles on it, 100% local driving. I get the exact same on the interstate lol. i'd rather extra use/wear be on brake pads than shifter bushings, linkages, synchro's, trans, engine. I can see that. I've gotten very good at seamless downshifts. People who ride in my car say it's smoother than riding in an automatic being driven by an average driver. I've also ridden with people who had driven stick for years and still drove like they were learning. All depends on the individual what gets worn out quickest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymulderitsme Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Yeah, I echo all the other sentiments here. I had a '92 Loyale for almost four years and you're just going to have to learn how to drive your car. And learn to drive with a clutch. It will be second nature after a while, but you're probably extra paranoid about any weird feelings right now cause it's so new to you. I like to pretend like there's a pulley going all the way through my legs from one foot to the other. So when I press in the clutch, this imaginary pulley pulls my foot off the gas, and when I press on the gas, the pulley pulls my foot off the clutch. It's a balance and it's different with every car. Just do it slowly until you know where your shift points are and where your clutch engages and disengages. If you can learn to do these things smoothly, everything will feel so buttery and you'll start to boast about how damn good you are at shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 What you are experiencing is normal. If you push the clutch in when you let off the gas, it won't happen. If your brakes were hanging up enough to cause this, they literally be smoking when you got to where you're going. Auto trannys don't have a direct couple to the engine due to the fluid coupling in the torque converter so when you let off the gas, it allows an almost like neutral coast down. With the clutch, it is directly linked when the clutch is engaged so when you lat off the gas, the engine drags down the tranny and the car. Engine braking is way more effective in standard shift cars. It's the one thing I miss driving automatics. The lower the gear, and higher the RPM when you let off the gas, the more dramatic it will be. Thanks for easing my concerns, I was driving around today and found if I'm right around 2,000 it's barely noticeable. I'll just have to learn to drive my car better like Mulder said....thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The engine is directly coupled to the transmission in a manual. When you let off the gas, instead of the engine moving the car, the car is moving the engine. Any play in the engine mounts, transmission mounts or clutch will give a jolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) Updating this after almost a year with some new information. I found out the cause of my severe engine braking was actually due to a faulty Neutral Switch Assembly. According to this thread > https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/34730-neutral-switch-on-manual-trans/ < it's suspected the that the neutral switch assembly keeps the fuel injector spitting fuel into the intake when you take your foot is off the gas while you're in gear. A faulty switch assembly will cause the injector to immediately cut off fuel, while your off the gas, in gear, and cause you to eat the dash. I was getting a CODE 51 and investigated. I pulled the Neutral Switch Assembly last night, cleaned it, and re-installed. This fixed my issue. I'll do a write up on the location of this switch on the trans with images. Cheers to keeping these old babies running! WOO! Edited December 21, 2018 by YnotDIY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Also wanted to link this diagram incase anyone needs it. It's for a Loyale Turbo, which I do not have. (I have a 88 SPFI 4x4 Manual) but it did help me find the neutral switch as they are in a similar position. Neutral Switch is #7 on the diagram. https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_1990_Loyale-WAGON-TURBO/_80160_6027483/MT--REAR-CASE/A11-120-01.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YnotDIY Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Bought a new Neutral Switch Assembly from the dealer. You can find the part number in the images I've linked. Also for comparison purposes you will see the old switch and new switch side by side below. new switch has black plastic nub. Old switch is off white and quite worn. After I cleaned and re-installed my old switch I could actually feel it cutting in and out which was making the car jerk a bit in gear. I figured heck it might as well just buy a new one! Got it for $36. Crazy thing is this switch looks almost the same as the Back Lamp Assembly that turns on the reverse lights for manual transmissions. Only difference I can see are the plugs. Double crazy is that newer Subarus also have this switch....different plugs though, but possible to source these if for some reason they stop producing either the Back Lamp or Neutral Switch. Cheers ya'll! Purchase Part Here > https://parts.subaru.com/p/SWITCH-ASSEMBLY-NEUTRAL/49242865/32008AA041.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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